Web3 & AI Shaping the Future of Creativity and Brands

E65 Web3 & AI Shaping the Future of Creativity and Brands

SPEAKERS

Nadja Bester, AdLunam Inc Co-founder

Rupert Breheny, Founder of Cobalt AI (Tech issues during the show)

N Tarun Krishna, Founder & CEO at Arthyna Pvt. Ltd

Hugo Barbera, co-founder of HumAIn

My one word I think it would be people

brilliant that definitely sets us up for a great conversation. And I'm also very excited to announce that I could hear you. So hopefully that is going to continue. And then finally, we have Tarun Krishna, who started his career by publishing his first non fiction book at the age of 19, and now leads Tarun, I'm not quite sure how to pronounce this. Is it Artina or Arthena? A phygital marketing agency that specializes in branding solutions for the metaverse, including AI influences mixed reality and NFTs, as well as an upcoming web based app for creating interoperable wearable NFTs and avatars. Welcome Tarun. What is your one word

that will be the future, and also it's Arthyna

Perfect. Thank you so much. All right, so before we get into the meat of the conversation, the future of NFTs is brought to you by AdLunam, the web3 investment ecosystem pioneering Engage to Earn and Proof of Attention models for tokenized investments and community engagements, as well as a quick announcement. If you're in Bangkok, Thailand this weekend, come say hello to us. AdLunam and our media arm Altcoin Observer will be at wiki Expo on September 7, where AdLunam co-founder Jason Fernandes, is doing a fireside chat on tokenomics and the team, and I will be bringing you insights from the experts through live on site interviews, which you will be able to check out on the Altcoin Observer YouTube channel. So let's get back to the question of or at least the question to kick us off. So Hugo, since you were the first answer, I was able to hear you said, people, why is it that people that? Why is it people that excites you the most about this intersection between AI and the decentralized technologies that we have and culminating in what digital creativity then really means? Yeah,

so probably it comes from my background in advertising, what I used to do and what was our goals working there, but also as a designer, things, in my opinion, tend to work when we put people at the center, when we get them The importance they deserve, and if we are using technologies, especially new technologies and things that actually can make big changes in society, like these two, and we focus on people, ultimately, if you are a company, of course you want to sell something, but if you start understanding people, they need. It and actually trying to help them. And I think both technologies can do a lot of good. I think that's the that's the future well, for web3, Blockchain, and for AI,

thank you. You go excited to dive deeper into your answer. Tarun, what about you the future? Why is it the future that excites you?

Because I believe that NFTs have come a long way from being just JPEGs on the internet, so I think that the future is really bright for NFTs, given that there are a lot of technologies that are converging around web three, including AI and the metaverse and virtual reality and all these things, right? So I just want to see that where the whole industry goes from here, and how the entire, like the NFT, you know, ecosystem will transpire in this whole, you know, in the, in the, you know, coming days. So, yeah, that will be my take on the future for this thing. Perfect.

So let's bring those two answers together. I see we've lost Rupert for the moment, but Rupert. You're back as a speaker. Let's, let's quickly do a sound check and see if we're able to hear you. Now I found out it was not only me. They couldn't hear you. Okay, still nothing for the minute. But if you are able to get on, please just unmute yourself and let us know that you are here. Okay, see, there's I see there's a change. Now. Are you able to unmute? Rupert? I still no sound for me. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if anyone else is able to hear you. All right, in the meantime, this, unfortunately is just what we have to deal with on X sometimes we, I think we're all used to it, so sometimes you get lucky. So in the meantime, you go and Tarun, let's kind of tie these two answers together, because I think, you know, it speaks to probably the number one issue that I see being faced in emerging technologies is the technology itself, and the applications of the technology is incredibly exciting. That's why we are all here. I mean, that's why we're building for this future. On the other hand, though, I think, you know, being in the tech era that we are, there's an increase or a decreasing focus on human centricity. So if we look at technologies, especially in the web3 space, I think it's nowhere more pertinent than in this space, there's an incredible focus on the technology and what the technology is able to do. But unfortunately, when it comes to, I don't even want to get to the level of mass adoption, I think we are still at the stage where most people simply don't even understand what these technologies are. When they do know, it's because they've read about it in the media, and that's either because, you know, an NFT was selling for 70 million, or because now the crypto is dead. So what is this sort of balance that we need to always keep in mind, and then, you know, really incorporate into the way that we do our work and the companies that we build and the clients that we work with to really help people from this. Okay, cool. The technology is cool, but what is the purpose? What is the function? Who are these humans that we are building for so tough, heavy question, but let's start there. Please. Any of you Rupert, if you're able to unmute, I do see that you're on back as a speaker.

Thanks. This is my last chance at an external microphone. Anything it

it is successful, wonderful, welcome,

lovely. Now very quickly, I know you always get these issues if I speak into the phone, or is it coming from the this is the microphone. This is the phone.

Which do you prefer the phone the phone for sure.

Okay, so I think note herself. External microphones are not working on the Twitter app for me. Hey, nice. Meet. You still hear me? Okay,

yes, yes, for the moment, right?

Perfect. Well, look, I'm gonna backtrack on that previous question and just announce my general incompetence, both in technical hardware and NFT. I come, I think is the everyman for the whole NFT web three experience, because I still have not wrapped my head around it. So I'm going to be the voice of a

so Rupert, we've lost you again, unfortunately, but just to acknowledge what you've said about being the everyman in the conversation, I think it's incredibly important to have that perspective, and it's certainly a perspective that we always try to keep on the show. So definitely no worries about any sort of technical expertise. Is when it comes to web3 so Tarun and Hugo. In the meantime, if I need to repeat the question, please let me know. But yeah, really just wanted to understand your thoughts on what is this balance between focusing on the technology and the promise of the technology and keeping a focus on building for humans, which I think we've kind of lost track of a long time ago in the tech world. And of course, now with AI, it becomes even more of a question, you know, are we building for AI? I mean, are we building for humans, or are we now building for AI?

Okay, I think I can start to link it quickly, to the to the humans, for example, my expertise, or I'm not an expert on web three, but as a brand designer, during the last two years, I've helped four or five projects building them from the branding itself, the website, or even some NFTs collection. I, as I was saying, I'm not an expert, but of course, I learned a lot with them, and I keep being involved with some of them during these two years. And from the very beginning, I saw there were two things that were maybe a bit disconnected for the mass public, from one side, it was difficult to understand, even for me, that I'm quite at a Chevy guy, I would say it was difficult to understand many things if I was Not really involved. That's something that with AI didn't happen because it was very straightforward, especially with Gen AI or ChatGPT, any of these things, you were having an input and an amazing, let's say, output, kind of instantly. So it was very easy for people to see the benefits, and then even the user experience. I mean, I know things kept evolving and were getting better and better, but when I started and again, it was two years ago, I was not a pioneer. Even the user interface was really difficult more things, and we can even relate it to how mid journey started using discord, which is not the best app in user friendliness, but still what's much easier than some web three things now already. So that is one of the parts that I always was thinking and speaking with these founders, on how to actually simplify things. But on the other side, they were growing and they needed to focus on the current public so probably that's how things were. But if we need a further adoption, we need to simplify things, to do things, to show everything much, much easier for everyone. That's my point of view, and that's the thing that has been stopping, let's say, a bit the web3 compared to the super rise of AI.

Absolutely Hugo couldn't agree with you more. You know, just to comment on not being an expert on this, I think always when you hear, when you listen to feedback from people who do not work in the industry, they don't have the same level of forgiveness for the problems and the faults and the issues, and sometimes that's a good thing. I mean, you know, things are still evolving and it's still moving, but when you hear the same consistent feedback from everyone that is not in an industry, it's probably time to take that feedback seriously. So I definitely think that there is going to be a move towards, I mean, a great many things in web three, but certainly I think the point you raised about the UI UX being very complex, this is not something we need to put up with in web two, everything just works. And therefore, if you give us a more difficult solution that we find more difficult to understand and has more security issues, then why would I take that decision if it's much easier in the environment that I know? So thank you for highlighting the benefits of AI in terms of very straightforward onboarding and immediately being able to see and experience and benefit of the benefit from the benefits, as opposed to with web3, where it's in a lot of cases, you know, don't worry, it's going to come, but in the meantime, it's not a great experience. Just put up with it. So Tarun, would love to have your perspective. I know you're very deeply entrenched in the web3 space, as am I. So what are your thoughts on what is this sort of tension between doing. The things the right way, even if it takes longer and is more difficult, or, you know, doing it the way that sometimes is done in web3, where it's not very good, but the technology is going to win the day.

In my opinion. I believe that we are only building for humans, though the Tech is a part of the process, right? Because web3, in a way, is very new, and it's, you know, like the whole industry is just taken off, or maybe it took off, like, some time back, but now again, like there is this plateau that we're traversing, and it's more like, even when we're talking to people, or like, customers or clients in general, there's a lot of education that goes into the whole thing, because many of them obviously don't understand. And when you say NFTs, like, the first word like, the first thing that pops up in their mind are those, you know, monkey NFTs They saw like, long back. Or maybe, you know, they think of it as some kind, you know, Ponzi, or the different perspectives, right? Like people, different people look at it in different ways. But then I think, like, as long as we look at NFTs as just JPEGs on the internet or some kind of get rich quick scheme, it is not going to help, like anyone in that regard. Yeah, we will actually have to look at it in a way where NFTs are the medium for any brand to, you know, like communicate well with their like, with their customers, or with their community in general. And it is an excellent way to harness communities. Because when you look at NFTs as a medium to give your community members, you know, a ticket that they can have to show that, yes, I am a part of this community, and this is what I have, and this is what you know, I'm getting from it. So that is when actually NFTs are going to, like, actually, you know, get the true value that you know, you and I and folks here, like, you know, saw in it, right? Like, long back when we got into it, like, because it was not just the, you know, the monetary aspect of it, but it was the utility part of it, and which is why I'm supremely bullish on Metaverse communities like Decentraland, where you are not just like playing a game, or, you know how the metaverse is right now, right? Like, folks look at it as a game, or some of them look at it as some kind of virtual reality experience, and that's it. But then the whole web3, like, when you add the entire web3 layer on top of it, that is when you can actually see the true value of the creations that are going into it, like, be it the spaces or the variables or the emotes or whatever it is. So I believe that it's, it's mostly the tech that is driving it. But then obviously, like, how Hugo was talking about it, that it's not very easy to, you know, just wrap your head around these technologies, and, you know, start creating things. So I think that AI is one of those technologies that is actually going to bridge this gap for us. Because, you know, there are a lot of these platforms right now that we can use to create assets, and, you know, stuff that we can use in the metaverse or in virtual reality worlds, right? So I think that that is where AI will definitely play a part. But like, how we were talking about it, that there's a lot of education that goes into it, and we will have to have to, like, you know, like, travel down that road with people who don't understand it, and make them understand that it is not just JPEGs on the internet, but it is a lot more than that. It is a way of harnessing communities, and it is a way of connecting with people in ways that we have not seen before.

Yeah. Thank you, Tarun, I think you know, just to highlight what you were saying about ultimately, we are building for humans. Tech is part of the process of building for humans, and this, these particular technologies just so happen to offer us, or really unlock for us, the types of engagements that we can have with others. I mean, for brands, of course, this is for their customers, in ways that previous technologies certainly just couldn't do, but then leading into sort of the next part of the conversation. So we know that for all its benefits and for all its issues both web3 and AI, what it has done has unlocked possibilities for people, whether these are artists, whether these are founders, whether these are brands, every different stakeholder is getting something out of this. But there is really, let's say, a renaissance of creativity and innovation that is taking place. So when it comes to AI of. Course, I think all of us on, you know, live on this call right now, as well as anyone listening to the episode on a podcast afterwards. I think by now, all of us has have had direct interaction with generative AI, for example, we've, we've all gone on an app like ChatGPT. All tried it and see, you know, what can we output? Probably most of us have tried to generate an image, a video, and the list really goes on. So now we've entered this era where everything and anything that we would like to create is at our fingertips, which has been a massive democratization of creativity. But what I would like to know is, what does this mean for creativity? So you go you have been in the fashion and the advertising space for a long time. You've worked with Vogue, for example, you have had exposure at any number of levels when it comes to working with brands. So for from your experience as an art director. What is changing when it comes to creativity, and how is this changing in the business landscape? Because of AI,

yeah, so basically, there are here two factors, because it's different from the photo. From the point of view of the professionals like myself are directors, designers, videographers, anything you want, anyone working in field than from the companies themselves. Because from the perspective of the of the creatives, especially for freelance creatives who has been using AI, it helps a lot, not just because the what you can deliver, but the way you can deliver, how speed you can deliver things. If I'm to design a logo, the usual process was to design quickly, design 100 logos, then pick three, fine tune them and present them to the client. That could take you two days of work, three days of work, a week of work. Once you have your concept and start designing now this first stage of designing 100 logos, you can do it in 10 minutes, and then you actually design the real logos. That's just an example, but that's why I've been using AI for the last two years, and not always necessarily as final deliverables, but just as part of the process flow for my work. So everyone who has been doing the same as me, of course, has made their lives much easier. Sometimes you finish work that fast that you can get to have another project, and of course, at the end, have more income for you. From the company's perspectives, I would say it's different first, because there are these legal issues that are completely unclear, and sometimes they are fearing if they can use it or not, if they professionals, their creatives work in their half time to learn or not. I find unbelievable that they don't know how to use Midjourney, mostly when it's extremely easy and then the real possibilities. I mean, when you are having doing a photo shoot, you are doing a CGI for a visual, you are doing a TV commercial, filming it. You have full control with AI. You don't everything looks good on social media, but when you want a real campaign, and I've been doing real campaigns with AI since last November, everyone needs to be aware that the quality is not going to be the same, so we are adopting it at different paces, companies and creatives, especially freelance creatives. But probably the most important here is that we need to know that this is advancing and getting better and better and having new opportunities, and every time more and more companies are more open. And I can see this, because I think my first engagement, paid engagement with AI, came in November. Then I had maybe one or two that they said paid engagement is that they were hired me just for the AI thing. Maybe I had, I don't know, two or three more works in three months. And now, in the last four months, I have had 10, 12,15, I don't know a lot, and I have a waiting list for clients and probably the same other artists that are working professionally. When I say professional, it's because they work in the creative industry, not in the art industry, which is a. Friend topic. I'm not an artist myself, so I don't know. I'm not that involved in the in the art space, but I've been working in advertising. So that's what I know and what I like to talk about always.

Thank you. You go. I think you touched on so many different points, but you know, just to highlight a few of them, I love what you said about AI is not necessarily the final output, but it does form part of your workflow process, because I think there's this sort of general fear. I mean, when I speak to different people, of course, it depends on who you speak to, people that are already creative. Either say, No, it's taking away all the creativity. You know, it's threatening what I'm doing. It's not authentic. It's not real. It's not true. And then, of course, there are so many other people who say, as you do, well, it's just a tool that I'm using in order to really maximize the output that I'm able to have that is as authentic as can be considering that we live in a world that's really fast paced, you know, fast moving, and that ultimately efficiency if, as you say, if you're working in a creative industry, it's different than being an artist, where you're only simply expressing yourself. And then also, just to highlight another thing I think that was very interesting is what you were saying about people not knowing how to use Midjourney, for example, despite it being really, really easy to use. And I think that leads me, then to my next question in terms of, you know, when it comes to adoption of anything, that's why we have an adoption curve. You know? We know there are people who are early adopters. We know there are people who are laggards at the end. They only come in where there's no real choice but to come in when the whole landscape has changed, and that's all that there is. But then when it comes to the companies in question, of course, we have the big brands. And no matter what the technology is, big brands are always the first ones to dip a toe into it. But we are also seeing a lot of brands that are hesitant whether this is web3, whether this is AI. So I want to talk a little about what those fears are. Perhaps these are fears from professionals working at companies. Perhaps these are fears, you know, from the company overall. Rupert, I see you're here. So hopefully we're having, we're having a bit more luck now. So if you're able to take this question would be lovely, wanting to know, what are these fears that prevent companies from trying out this, these technologies at this stage, and what are you telling them to help them mitigate these

so third time is a charm. Let's see how this goes. The fear is very legitimate, and I think this is sometimes what some of the

No, I think, unfortunately, we have lost Rupert again. Sorry, it's just it's one of those days where it's just not meant to be so Tarun. In the meantime, if maybe we can start this question off with you, and then if Rupert hopefully comes back, and it's the fourth time being a Tom, we can ask him

for sure, yeah, because I think that one of the major fears that creatives, like, as opposed to companies, would have is that, like, they might be afraid that, you know, AI is here to Take their jobs, right? Because many of them, like feel that what the work, or whatever they used to do previously, that would take hours or days now, can be done in minutes. So obviously it is going to be frightening for them, and they obviously don't look at it in a way where they can enhance their workflow, like how Hugo was saying, right, that it is also part of the workflow, and you use it like that, maybe it might not give you the final end product. But then what's wrong in using it? But that's the thing, right? Like, obviously, like, when there's a new technology, there will be folks who will be adopting it early, and then there will be folks who will be afraid of it. In fact, like, I mean, to give you my own personal take on this, when I saw AI, like, you know, I started my experience with AI. Started with my journey. And, you know, disco diffusion, it was a thing back then. So when I used to see these things, right, I was like, what the like, what is happening over here? Like, now, art is, like, completely up for disruption. And it is not like, how it is it was before, right? Like, because previously, you need to go to an art school, you need to get trained, you need to know how to use paints, brushes, canvases, all that stuff now is just a few prompts. And it's, it's, you know, voila, like, you can, you can actually have finished artwork. And it is not just like, because previously it was like, you actually have to read about the history of art if you want to get inspired by different kinds of artists, like, let's say Van Gogh or Picasso or whoever, right, like Claude Monet. Now the AI is just. Trained on all these guys already. So you just need to tell it that, okay, this is my idea. Just do it in the style of this artist or that artist, and that's it, like you have the artwork ready. And that was my fear back then. But then, as I kept, you know, venturing into this rabbit hole, and I kept getting deeper and deeper into it, I realized that, dude, this is, this is the future, because this is how art is, like, I mean, at the end of the day, like, how they say, right, Great artists steal. Like, maybe we're not, like, completely stealing, but that's the thing, right? It's, it's the thing like, where all these copyright issues are there, surrounding AI, and we never know that. What is, you know, I mean, how legit it is, like the output we're using, or which artist has actually agreed for his work to be trained upon, and how many of them, how many of their works have been infringed upon? And it's a very gray area right now, but I believe that these things are part of the process, like when you know the whole thing is taking off, because AI art in general is maybe like there were technologies previously, but now it is solidifying its place. And as time goes by, I think that all these issues will also subside, and then there'll be just creativity at the end of it. So I think for creatives, at least, they should try it out, yeah, like, even if they're afraid of it, even if they think that this is worthless or whatever, it does not give you the right idea, or maybe someone. Because one issue is there for sure that if you have something very specific in your mind, and you have a very definite idea of what your artwork should look like, and then you start interacting with AI, maybe it will not like there are very high chances that you might not get exactly what's there in your mind, and that's where your creativity comes into place, right? Because AI is just there to help you reach that stage, but it will definitely help you with the conceptualization of whatever you think is the right way to do it. So like, for creatives, at least, I feel it's worth it, but for companies, I'm sure, like their major fear would be around copyright issues right now, because as companies, they would be like, you know, very afraid of, you know, getting into lawsuits with different kinds of issues in it, because here, right, like, if they, let's say they create something with AI, and then some artist whose work has been infringed upon by, you know, an AI software comes up and says that, dude, this is My work. And you're just like, you know, you're just like, copying from it, so that that can obviously be a problem for companies. But with that said, I think when we mix AI with human creativity, that is where the magic happens. Yeah, like, don't just use AI for, you know, to create the final end product, but use it to actually enhance your workflow.

Absolutely. Tarun, couldn't agree more. I think you've brought up a really important point, probably the stickiest thing when it comes to AI at the moment, you know the fact that tech does generally take a move fast and break things approach. And I do agree with you, in the sense that you know, ultimately this is how innovation takes place. But of course, on the other hand, it's opened up an entire kind of can of worms about copyright and ownership, and then hopefully this is a conversation that ultimately is going to lead to really talking about what ownership means, because, of course, that then ties into web three, where, ultimately, do we own anything or not, and is it possible for us to own things? Yes, it is. But we need to solve the complexity problems in order to get people into the space. But so Hugo, I want to then sort of go build on top of Tarun's Answer. One thing, if you look at a lot of the content on the internet right now, whether it's text, let's say the ChatGPT version, or whether it's the AI image, generate generation version, very often it's very easy to spot when someone has used AI. So I think there's almost a uniform art style, that it's instantly clear that it's been made by AI, and then also the text version as well. So I'm curious, then, if we are going to live in a world where AI is always using us, well, that was that sounds like a Freudian slip, where we are always using AI. You know, in order to all the great benefits that we've discussed, what is the fear of us living in a future where, because of AI, there's more creative uniformity than before? As in, we don't think so out of the box, because now AI is doing a lot of the foundational thinking. Perhaps. For us, and we don't even realize it,

so that, I think that's a very interesting question, and it's something that, again, always, from my professional working view, it's super simple, and it's because the AI, it's just the tool. Whether you use ChatGPT or you use Midjourney or other Gen AI software, what makes the difference is the people behind it. If someone who does send have any idea about photography composition or direction is using Midjourney They are going to get Midjourney images. They may get something a bit different because of their codes, or using a picture as reference, or maybe they just get luck. But I always say is that from the start, the best AI photographers that I knew they were photographers, best AI, three the artists that I knew they were already three the artists. Same goes for architects, and same goes for ChatGPT. If someone who is a copywriter is going to use ChatGPT Much better than me, who I'm not, and I can see this in other people work, and I still have contact, of course, with a lot of copywriters, and I know their work and how they leverage ChatGPT by default. Of course, these tools, you can recognize instantly ChatGPT style, and you can recognize instantly mid journey or flux or stable diffusion or other models, it's very, very easy to recognize them. But in many occasions, I've shown even when it was not as realistic as it is. Now, I've shown pictures to people not trying to be especially just the most realistic things, but they didn't believe me when I was saying that that was AI, because it didn't look like the AI that was kind of floating the internet with all the images looking more or less the same with this style, and even my journey itself, we can See how it's trying to fight that with the srefs Coach, or other tools inside your personalized codes, or some other things that you can do inside of the software itself, to try to avoid that Midjourney default look, Who says Midjourney says any other tool? So I think more than ever it's going to be very important, the education that we that we get in whatever we want to do if we want to work as visual artists, we need to know about this, really know about artist styles, about photography, about ly about anything that can help you create a distinctive work, because the same way that now we can all get to mid journey and create crazy images. We got, I don't remember now, 15 years ago, our smartphones and we were all photographers, but we are not all photographers, and that's the difference. The thing that you can do, it does not mean that you are good at it. If you want to be good at something, you actually need to learn how the basics, the theory, some people are just genius sometimes, or have this something hidden inside of them that then, with a smartphone or with AI software, they can express themselves in ways they didn't know they could, and they are really good instantly. But that's not the common and I think probably that's one of the biggest issues, and why it's even taking a bit longer to adopt by brands, because they are seeing this style, fake style, that resembles like AI.

Yeah, thank you, Hugo. I think that's very important perspective. Because I think, you know, a lot of people talk about the possibilities that are unlocked by these tools, but one thing that has remained true from the beginning of human society, or at least human intellectual development, up until the present time is the fact that it takes those 10,000 hours to become an expert. So whether you are using an AI tool, or whether you are using traditional sort of education by going to an art school, whatever, ultimately, it does come down to practice, to honing your skills, to improving irrespective of tool. Respective of you know, what the technological developments are, that is a truth that will never not be a truth. So thank you very much for that perspective. I then want to ask, On a similar note, Tarun, we've been talking a lot about education, and of course, in the web three space, it's, you know, our number one word is educate, and then people will show up, which, of course, is also why we do the show. Is really to bring to people, I mean, at a in your living room level, what is happening, what people are talking about, what people are thinking about. So of course, that's also part of education, but a very time consuming education, and as we know, time is short, so for people wanting to whether as a professional or as a founder or as an existing brand you know that is wanting to leverage these technologies, what do you consider to be education? There's so many different things to educate yourself on this you can spend a lifetime just on education. So what are the key fundamentals needed in order to kind of start in this industry, whether as a professional or as a brand?

I think that when it comes to education, like, how you said, like, there's a vast ocean of knowledge, and you can just keep taking out of it, right? But then, depending on what kind of industry you're in. So let's say you are in the marketing and the branding industry, or you might be in the finance industry. You might be in any kind of industry. So depending on where you are, I believe that educating yourself on whatever technologies are coming up, like right now, like in the present, is the way to do it, because that is how you can actually, kind of, because see, for any brand to just do what has been done already, they'll just be like, you know, like other brands, or maybe like, they will just end up losing out on the competition bit, because there are brands already that have solidified their place. And they obviously, no one likes newcomers, right? Like no one wants them to come forward and stuff. So I feel that if as long as we are, like, getting educated on technologies that are coming up, just like AI and, you know, web three and stuff like that, so then I believe that any brand or any creator can actually have that additional edge over other people, because then, like legacy companies, obviously, will take time to adopt these technologies, and they will always be in that zone. Should we use it? Or should we just, you know, take a look at how the whole thing is transpiring, and then maybe, you know, take a leap of faith. But the guy who's actually out there like doing it, and who has already, like, you know, experienced the whole industry in a in a new light, will obviously have that edge. Similarly, like, how, you know, new startups come up, right? Like, what do they do? They basically take a problem which is existing, and then they find a better solution to it. Doesn't mean that legacy companies can't find that solution. They obviously have the team, they obviously have the money, they have everything, but still, they are not able to do it because of the bureaucracy issues surrounding, you know, those big companies, but the smaller guy is obviously able to move faster, and that I feel, is the real edge in any business, right? Like, as soon as you can move ahead with your idea, with whatever solution you have and implement it and then iterate and reiterate on that solution. Because obviously whatever solution you would have initially will not be the final solution, or will not be, you know, the thing, like, very rarely it happens, yeah, usually, like, people start and then they realize that, oh, man, like this, you know, this was nowhere close to what I thought was the real deal, right? And then they keep iterating, like the smart ones actually do, and the ones who don't, they obviously get left out. So as far as education goes, I feel that educating yourself on whatever technology is relevant to you, like how we were talking about, you know, the fashion industry. Let's say you're from the fashion industry, and now you look at the you know, you look at technologies like mid journey, or, you know, any, any of the AI generative AI softwares, right? So now you can either look at it in such a way that who's gonna create these dresses, who's gonna wear them, or maybe use those technologies to actually improve your workflow and try to find out ideas that maybe you could never come up with, but AI can obviously help you, you know, get through to those ideas. So that is what I believe. Yeah, like educating yourself on whatever is current and is in trend is the way to do it

absolutely and thank you for bringing that back. Because, you know, I always say it's. We live in a time where you cannot afford not to be a futurist. There's the future is happening too quickly. It's moving too fast. And so if you're not constantly up to date with what is the next thing around the corner? I think AI is a brilliant example. I wish that Rupert were able to be with us tonight. Unfortunately, tech is tech issues. Is tech issues. We are all very used to this on X but being Rupert and cobaltAI is also doing a lot of work in the space in terms of AI automation. Now, I mean, if we look at the at the rapid speed at which AI automation is transforming businesses, we look at the output that AI is bringing about in the lives of professionals, then it's clear that things are moving really, really quickly. And I can just imagine how many people have been taken by surprise, and are continuing to be taken by surprise because of technology being a ripple effect. I mean, we are at the cutting edge of it. So we know about the, you know, the fast moving changes as even before they happen. But then there are other people that it comes to their industry at the time that it comes to them. And I think it's incredibly important that you know what is coming only with that perspective, you know, can you I think something that came up for me as you spoke to Arun, was, you know, in a startup, you have to pivot and pivot and pivot until you find product market fit. And you, of course, you think that your number one, you know, strategy, and your number one approach is going to be that product market fit. But then after the 20th pivot, then you're like, Okay, I guess that's not how it was going to go. And it's 100% the same in your career as well, especially because we live in a time where technology is completely disrupting everything that we do. So Hugo would love to then also have your perspective on this. What do you think are the most important things that professionals and brands need to educate themselves on right now, and really, what are the first sort of steps that you typically recommend for people to dip a toe into, into this from a professional and a branding standpoint,

yeah, that's also it was very interesting, whether you were talking about now, and the Question itself, first of all, because especially with AI, also we with web three, there are so many things that sometimes feels overwhelming, even for me, that I'm using AI three to four hours per day, even when I'm not working just for fun, There are so many things that the only important things is just to start like anything you want to do in your life, just start doing it. You will be very bad at the beginning. You will be very good when you have been 2,3,4, years working, and you will be an expert after this 10,000 hours, once you know that the only thing you need to do is to start you will be finding the things that should better your needs can be ChatGPT, can be web3, can be Gen AI can be training your own models. It depends, but there are so many things that it seemed impossible to know everything. One of the of the reasons why I co-founded a HumAIn it was because we were three people. We are a collective. We are not an agency or anything. We are just a collective friends, of course, with different backgrounds and different skills. We team up when we need something that we can work together, and we team up with other people when we don't know how to do something. And we've met through LinkedIn, through x, through Instagram, someone who is using AI technology in a different way than us. So that should be the goal of everyone, whether you are just a person or you are a company, just start see possibilities and see what is suiting best for you. For companies, it's more difficult because you are in your day to day work and you have to deliver a lot of things, and not everyone is capable of investing time in consulting like some companies are doing with me, because they don't have the ability to actually train their teams to be working on this learning At the same time that that they are delivering work. Then in my career, I always like to keep learning things sometimes related to my work, sometimes not, and sometimes I found that things not related to work were actually very, very valuable for my work. So we just keep. Open minded be always eager to learn, even if it's just a bit every day or when you have time, but having this mentality of always wanting to learn something and just start doing it,

absolutely I think that for me, my creativity has, I mean, my curiosity, at least, is what has led to my creativity. So curiosity is really where it starts. As long as you're curious, as long as you're asking questions. Think, as Tarun said earlier, there's a vast ocean of knowledge out there, and you can actually exhaust yourself on the amount of learning resources. What is important is that willingness to want to learn. And unfortunately, I think in today's day and age, we are losing a lot of that because, you know, there's a lot of external entertainment created by other people, and so really, just retaining that curiosity is incredibly important. But as we draw to a close in today's show, I want to get out your crystal balls and ask you, let's kind of look five years into the future. There's a lot happening right now, and there's a lot of hopes, and there's a lot of promises for these technologies. What do you guys think? What are we actually going to see in five years?

Okay, that's probably the most difficult question that can be answered. And as I, I were, I was in in cancer lions this. This past June, I attended to a conference from BJ Pereira, who is one of the best creatives in history, and very involved in AI. And in his conference, he was saying that AI, it's a bit like when Neanderthals discovered fire. They didn't know that with fire. Discovered how to how to manipulate fire. They didn't know that with fire, at some point they were going to be eating ice creams, because they started melting the ropes, making new tools, tools every time, more advanced, more advanced. And now they can. We can eat ice cream, just to put an example. I mean, it's so crazy the new possibilities of AI that to say what we will be able to do in five years, I think it's literally impossible to know. It's something that we will be seeing gradually and advancing every time, faster and faster, but seeing it until something really disruptive comes again, like when the time that mid journey became public, for example.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I think it most certainly is the most difficult question that anyone can answer, not only because we don't have crystal balls, but because, as you say, the changes are happening so rapidly. I think that none of us could have imagined what would have been possible, what is possible now, a year ago, and similarly, I mean, if you look at Moore's law, I mean that only spells that it's all going to speed up. So Tarun, what about you? What do you kind of envision is going is going to be a reality for all of us in five years time?

Like how Hugo was saying, like, it is so difficult, most difficult question of them all, I really wish I actually had a crystal ball through which I could look into the future. But to give you my two cents on this, I believe that the whole industry of virtual reality, and you know, VR headsets, which is now more like a novelty, would be part of everyone's lives, and we will spend a lot of our, you know, waking lives in a virtual world as well, where all these technologies of AI and web three would converge in a very positive manner, because at the end of the day, I believe that tech is going to disrupt the way we live, and maybe Not in the next five years, but let's say 10,15, 20 years, this is definitely going to be the future for us, where all our assets are going to be digital, like we will be spending digital money everywhere. And not to say that, you know, the way we traditionally do things will just, you know, vanish, but I feel that the new age of technology, like all these new assets that we can see right now, be it like, you know, digital currencies, or, you know, digital assets or artworks or whatever, right, like AI and stuff like that, will definitely formulate the major part of. Are living, and it will become commonplace for us, like, just like right now, how we're talking about, you know, adopting it and educating it, then it will be just, how are you using it now? What? What else are you doing with it? I feel that that is how it will be

perfect. Tarun Hugo, thank you so much for spending this hour with us and all of your fantastic insights and expertise, and also to the audience for investing an hour of your time into your own education, please do follow our fantastic speakers. They really know what they're talking about, and they are building the future. And I will catch you again next week for another episode of the future of NFTs brought to You by AdLunam Inc., guys, have a great week.