When it comes to crypto adoption, the ability to seamlessly transfer from regular business ecommerce patterns to Web3 is a game changer. Today Swipelux joins Diving Into Crypto with Filip Kollert , co-founder and COO at Swipelux to talk about new boundaries being broken, crypto regulation across foreign shores and how adoption has changed the fate of economies they step into. Find out more , during the show, tune in.
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Transcript
Swipelux - Filip Kollert
Participants:
• JP (CMO of AdLunam)
• Filip Kollert (Co-Founder & COO at Swipelux)
JP
All right, ladies and gentlemen, here welcome to this episode of Diving into Crypto. This show is brought to you by AdLunam, which is the industry's first NFT integrated Engage to Earn seed crowdfunding and IDO Launchpad with a Proof of Attention allocation model. The more you give us your attention, the more rewards you get. That's who we are. That's what we do on this show. Today we have our special guest Swipelux, and from that, we have Filip, who is going to be representing Swipelux today. I will introduce him briefly, but before that, a few hygiene announcements in case we get cut off. Come back to AdLunam Inc.’s Twitter handle, and you will find the new link to get back in onto the show. Views expressed on this program belong to that of the speaker and are meant for education purposes only. Do not think of them as financial advice.
JP
They're meant for you to understand how the industry works. Furthermore, in case you have any questions, we will open up a series at the end of the show for the audience in the room to ask questions. You can tweet them in directly to our speaker or to AdLunam Inc. And we will have them answered for you. All right, that being said, ladies and gentlemen, I'm looking forward to a fantastic show today. Welcome, Filip. Filip Kollert is someone that loves innovations and building with the team the bridge between web2 and the web3 world and while helping to reduce the friction of onboarding into web3, he's one of those people that are able to translate traditional web2 and brick and mortar businesses over to web3. He's got a wealth of experience from his career, and he's going to share some of the insights that his team at Swipelux and what they are doing, as well as some of his insights through his career with us.
JP
Filip, welcome. I am so glad to have you on the show today. Thank you for accepting our invitation.
Filip
Super happy to be here, guys. Hope you will enjoy it. And thank you very much for inviting me. I'm looking forward for the discussion.
JP
Right. Super. Okay, Filip, let's start a little bit about tell us a little bit about yourself, of course. What got you into this space and what got you into crypto?
Filip
Sure. Well, I'm in crypto for seven years, so back then, it was completely different than it is right now. I still remember the early ICO stage with a lot more scammers in place than it is right now. What got me into crypto? Well, I was in a high school, and one of my teachers have asked me, what is bitcoin? And I didn't know the answer, so I've just started googling and then I fell in love with it and I've somehow ended up spending here over seven years from this moment. I've built multiple projects where lots of them failed and one of the most successful so far is Swipelux that we are building right now. I've already built also some mining farms back then in Czech Republic. I was helping Binance with building a team here in Czech Republic and lots of other stuff. So it's been some time since I'm in crypto.
Filip
Yeah, that's for sure.
JP
Well, that's an exciting journey. You certainly seem to have covered some very interesting arcs, especially when it comes to having the mining rig, working with setting those up and of course working with multiple projects. You also did mention some of your time spent working on ICOs. Now that is an era that was a couple of years back and I'm not certain that people understand exactly what's the difference between the ICO and the IDO age. Do you want to shed some light on that?
Filip
Sure. Well, so when it comes to the ICO, the way how it worked before is that any kind of guy, because there was no regulations, could just kick off some project and start a fundraising campaign for it. And practically speaking, it was pretty easy to get funding because people were just more trusting inside of it, where the initial or the IDO is Initial Dex Offering, which is the offering on decentralized exchanges. Unlike the ICO, our tokens who are being listed on exchange, for example. And I remember that back then it was so easy to fundraise that even the craziest idea got like millions in funding. And I'm super happy that I see over time regulations building on top
Filip
Of it, where it is protecting the user a lot more than back then because I can actually say that like 99.99% were actually scams and nothing will deliver it. So the curve is getting to the right direction where regulations are in place. And I'm super happy to see that because people are actually right now taking the space much more serious than back then. So happy to see this change in the market.
JP
Yeah, I remember the ICO days when all you needed was a PowerPoint and literally a website before people gave you money. And like you're saying, they came up with crazy ideas, but this is effectively all they needed back in the day.
Filip
Yeah, exactly, that's true. I've personally burned a huge amount of money on ICOs. I was also one of the guys that believed that I just didn't knew how to do my own research back then. It was just like, yeah, these guys are building future, they have a video and they have a quite good team behind them. The tokenomics somehow make sense, so let me give them a little bit of money and I'm super happy that they're going to build that. And then it was like, well, the launch is delayed. The launch is delayed. And then like, well, okay, thanks guys.
JP
Those are different days. But that was also an expensive education in many ways for all of us. And you're right when you say that regulations come in and as much as we may not like to keep hearing the word, it is safer for the masses, therefore maybe in some way helping mass adoption. What do you think?
Filip
For sure. And I think that not only the regulations are important key here because the regulations are on the same time slowing down the technological advancements. Right. So I think that it's the responsibility of every builder in web3 space to educate. So I'm really happy to see that these communities are actually being taught how to do stuff or being there are multiple platforms where people can read about crypto, learn about crypto. There are influencers in crypto who are teaching people how to become safe because with the financial freedom which the crypto is offering, it's also the responsibility of each person to take care of that. When you have a fiat world, it's quite comfortable in a way that you feel a bit more protected on the same side. It's not exactly like that. So the crypto comes into the place where yeah, for sure, spend some time there, but also make sure that you will do all necessary steps to protect yourselves.
JP
Very true, very true. I remember a time having had some brief exposure into the financial world where this appeared to be very similar to investment bankers coming up with concepts of investing in forex. Right. It's like this new country has got this new government, it's getting this kind of funding, expect that if you invest in their currency, it's going to blow up 10%, 20% in a short span of time. And of course those numbers are phenomenal when you're considering investments in millions and billions of dollars. In many ways, it does seem to have the same sort of resonance. Did you see that through the same time?
Filip
Yeah, but the difference here is that because I was working at one investment bank as well, and I was building investment portfolios in the fiat world as well, like stocks, bonds, ETFs, and I was doing the reviews of the companies. And usually the good thing here is that you cannot lie. There is much less lies in the reports than in, for example, reports that you can see on websites of projects.
JP
Right.
Filip
You can, in a way, trust it a bit more on the same side. It's not a guarantee. Right? Yeah, there is similarities, but the fiat world is much more regulated and also the regulations came into place dozens of years ago, so these companies are already aligning with that. And crypto is just in early stages still when it comes to regulations. So people still have to be careful.
JP
Of course. And that is something that we all have to continue to remember, as you said, do your own research before you invest in projects. As a matter of fact, do your own research before you even invest on a site that says that it's going to invest it for you into a particular project. Because there are tons of scams out there and people have to be more aware that these things can happen and can happen to best of us. I'll be honest, it's happened to me as well. You click a link and it says, okay, fine, this is one of the best launch pads out there. It has a link, it's going to take you to allow you to invest in maybe a project like CryptoGPT, but the link is not off that particular Launchpad or that particular platform. So do your own research people.
Filip
Yeah, I couldn't agree more with that.
JP
Yeah, so cool. That being said, Filip, I'm really curious to understand you've been in this industry for the last seven years. You do have exposure to investment banking, which is a great combination, though I know that a lot of people who have that same arc struggle with the differences as well as the similarities in both these industries. But what keeps you passionate about being in Web3?
Filip
Yeah, so for me, it's the speed of how fast the things can go in the crypto space. Usually the way how I think about industries is that I like to spend time industries where are the most clever people in the world right now? Apparently. It seems to be AI and Web3. It's over years. It's insane what kind of people there are. When I was in Dubai, I just couldn't stop being amazed by what type of people are building projects. It's just insane. And when these brains are getting together, it's really cool what they can build. And I still really believe that the initial idea of the crypto and which still is to revolutionize the payments and the financial world is still in the place and still is taking their own path. Along with that, we have multiple branches of DeFi, of Metaverse or GamiFi, of Staking of NFT Marketplaces.
Filip
But still the mission remains the same, at least for me, to revolutionize the financial industry and to revolutionize the payments. And these branches are only the way, how to scale it, how to make it faster, how to make it more enjoyable. So it's the speed I've never experienced in my life that these huge changes, these huge movements and these huge amount of people building stuff in one place.
JP
I would agree with you. I think that there are tons of brilliant minds out there, tons of brilliant projects that are out there, and we are certainly excited and looking forward to them seeing the light of day or us having some exposure to them. That being said, Philip, are there some in particular or a direction in particular that you found a project that was very interesting.
Filip
Well, so I'm a big fan of GameFi and the reason for that is that it has a clear use case and it's a place where lots of web, two brands and lots of BC money are being invested in. So for me, usually it is about how big the market can be in three, five years and what is right now being done to be there. So with GameFi we can see that well, there is almost none Game that haven't published a PR article that they are considering some web3 development, which is lovely to see. And we've seen it multiple times in
Filip
The past that games were trying to create like this play to earn concept, but failed because there were lots of hackers scammers and there was no centralized or no secure place how to transfer asset cash out from the apps. And Crypto is offering that. So GameFi is one of the segments. Another segment is for sure Metaverse. When I'm thinking about how humans are interacting with the Internet right now, I think that if you will take a look at the report, how much you spent on your phone, if you have an iPhone, it's like, yeah.
JP
Filip, I think I've lost you there for a second. Lost you there for a second.
Filip
Sorry. Yeah, I just got a call. Sorry. I will just turn on the silence mode. So how much time do you spend on these internet devices you are actually spending there? More time than in the real life, for example, spend on my computer like 15 hours a day, 16 hours a day, 17 hours a day. It's completely normal for me. So I actually spent more time in the online world and then it's only about a question like how to leverage this experience. So Metaverse is also super cool for me where I feel that in the Metaverse were missing, or like in the online experience were missing the ownership element, which Internet is not offering right now. And Crypto is also bringing this into the place. And that's also where I'm focusing right now with Swipelux to solve this onboarding issue into these beautiful industries.
JP
Well, certainly I like that you point out GameFi as one of these spaces because GameFi is something that does have a large community worldwide, right? And it doesn't have to be restricted to one geography. We've seen Axie Infinity completely blow up portions of Southeast Asia at the same time, spaces across Europe, spaces across even South America, and of course North America. But that being said, forget that they've changed their model, right? Other GameFi projects that have come on board, I think they begin to hit on a few points that really get their audience going. But at the same time, there's a lot that a few of them are missing as they come up for hey, we can do so much more adoption, or they may be missing certain points. Maybe it is the game story, maybe it is the kind of graphics, maybe it is the targeting of audiences.
JP
What are your thoughts on that? Since you have an interest in gameplay, I'm just curious to pick your brain on that.
Filip
Yeah, well, I think it's quite simple. People forget that they are building product and they feel that they are building a crypto company. So when you are building a game, what's the point of building a game? Like, the game should be fun in the first place. The game should not have a great tokenomics. The game should not have a great staking program. The game should not have a great DeFi protocol. Right? It's about making a game that is actually enjoyable. And I've seen it multiple times. When the wave of plater and games were popping up, I was like, well guys, you've raised like $5 million and you've invested $2 million or like $3 million on the game and also a lot of on the tokenomics. But you haven't launched. You don't know the feedback of your customers. You don't know if the game will be enjoyable.
Filip
Launch it. Iterate based on the feedback of the customer. Create actually a product that people will be enjoying it. And the second step of the game is find a monetization model. Find a model that people will be leveraging the experience they have so far with the games. So I think that more than like 60%, maybe even more percent of the games haven't launched and don't have enough customers because the games sucks. It's super simple. The game is not great and people forget about that. And I can see that with multiple other projects. They are building companies and they are building products that needs to have users and you need to have a great product or great experience while being on the product to actually bring in the monetization. You first want to serve your customer well, make them happy, and then include the monetization. So, for me, usually when looking at games, I actually spoke with the companies about how much customers they have and how much they actually enjoy the game, what's their experience, what's their problem, and people forget about that.
Filip
On the same side, I'm happy that there is a little bit of crisis right now in the market, because right now the fundraising industry is it's much harder today to fundraise $100,000 than $1,000,000.01 year ago. Which means that the companies are being pushed by investors to actually think about customer acquisition cost, daily active users, monthly active users, and these metrics that are critical for the business, not only how great their staking program is. Right? So I see a shift in the market. I think it's going the right direction and I'm happy for this happening in the market.
JP
is was what used to happen in:Filip
Exactly. Yeah, that's just like, a great example. I think that people should be focusing more on building great product. And Y Combinator, that's my favorite accelerator, is actually pointing it out great. Like, build a product that people likes and that's about it. So build something that people want, and once you have that, then find the product, market fit, scale it, and build a monetization around it, a monetization system around it, not the monetization in the first place. And then trying to find a place or trying to find the niche, how to create the product.
JP
Yeah, that's business building 101. And it's often that we still have to remember that. I mean, many of us that are building projects, building products, building companies, need to remember that and keep that at the fore.
Filip
Right.
JP
So that being said, Filip, I'm curious to know what are some of the things that you're doing at Swipelux that when it comes to community, I know that you'll have a focus on it. What are some of the interesting things that you're doing that are different from, for example, other companies that are similar to yours?
Filip
Yeah, so, look, our mission at Swipelux is that we are here to reduce the friction while onboarding into Web3 in any possible way by providing the best tools and unique opportunities in the market. We have multiple products to do so. So what I've seen in the market is that there are so many cool projects built on top of the Web3, but it's so hard to get on board to them. The first question from the user is, like, what is MetaMask? How do I register at Exchange? What is decentralized exchange? What is layer 1? What is layer 2? How do I switch these coins? What does it mean as staking? So, these questions are super common, and when were thinking about it, were like, well, let's keep there the element of crypto, but let's make them on board much easier. So the backbone of our company is so called Fiat Onramp, where we have built a plug in play solution, where people can buy crypto with a payment card, and you can plug in this solution, for example, into Game.
Filip
We also have an option to list any kind of coin and offer the purchase of this coin with a payment card. We can do the same with an NFT. Another product we have just launched is we call it One Step Wallet, where we are able to create a wallet on any EVM based wallet with just a Gmail account. So, for example, for a game, they're like, well, guys, we have web2 audience, and we have so much questions around how to create a wallet, how to buy this token, how to register here and there. And we are writing blog posts about how to register at Binance on our game. We are writing blog posts, how to create a wallet, how to create a MetaMask. With our solution, they just plug it in. The customers are playing the game, enjoying the game and when they decide to buy some asset, they can do so with the Visa MasterCard.
Filip
So we are bringing in a Fortnite purchase experience into web3 companies.
JP
Wow, that's brilliant. That's brilliant. And tell me something about the community response to something like that. Even your clients respond to something like that. What are they seeing?
Filip
Yeah, well, they see a big shift in the conversion rate of getting more customers. Like we are B2 B focused company. Right. So we don't have retail community in general, we have B2 B customers. So what I can say is how our customers like the solution? Well, it was a big shift for them when they realized that they can right now talk with web2 companies and yeah, they are amazed like they really do like it in a way that they get more customers, they get higher volume and they got increased engagement rate. So what we've for example seen is that lots of our customers are taking inspiration from a launch of Reddit. Reddit had one of the most successful launches with NFTs. Well, and why? Because they haven't used any crypto word jargons. They haven't used NFTs, they have used some digital identity but they haven't used that much word of crypto.
Filip
So what we've seen, for example with gaming, with our customers is that they are not using wallet, they are not using staking words in general. They are replacing it with much more and much juicy words that people are used to. So they are just like talking not web3 language but web2 language and they see much higher engagement and much more customers coming into the place. For example, the average is that we increase the conversion rate from getting a visitor to customer by 20%, which is significant.
JP
Wow. Of course, most people claim most of the success that are still in single digits and to have double digit conversion is of course fantastic. Right. So that coming in from a business point of view. I want to pivot back to some of the thousand foot view. Right. I noticed that on your website, on Swipelux's website you'll have a coverage that goes across Europe, Southeast Asia, some part of the Americas and you're going to have North America as well as part of your expansion. And that's brilliant. I'm curious to understand from a focus point of view. Some of these geographies that are listed are of course battling with crypto regulation. Right? When I say battling with crypto regulation, it's just that there isn't a very clear understanding from certain governments about how do we deal with crypto. In some cases it's clear that no crypto is banned.
JP
We don't want it, we'll just tax it. So like for example in India, right, there are a number of the regulation is unclear, yet at the same time in Singapore it is clearer. In Hong Kong also the regulations are a lot clearer about how do you on ramp and off ramp and that is something that Swipelux has been able to circumvent. How do you navigate these situations where you have unclear or other lack of clarity with the government regulations? How are you able to work through this? How do you work that challenge?
Filip
Yeah, so since we are connecting fiat world with the crypto world, there is definitely a regulation essential part of our business. It's actually the majority of our business. So we as a Swipelux, we have three entities. We have one in Estonia, which is licensed as virtual asset service provider, one in Slovakia which also has a license and one in Delaware in the US market. So for us it's about navigating throughout the regulatory geographical locations. We have a compliance team which is helping us a lot with understanding how to understand what actually regulators are thinking about crypto. And if we see that there is an opportunity to step in and it's aligned with law, we step in and we serve customers in the local industries, in the local locations. But what I'm really glad that is happening right now in the market is that the regulators are not saying that crypto is a scam that much they are saying well, yes, crypto is interesting, we understand that there is a demand in the market.
Filip
What we want to achieve is we want to keep the customers safe. So I completely get what the regulators wants. And for example, in Estonia we are having open conversations with regulators about staking, about know, like this was unimaginable four years ago that you will have these kind of conversations. So I'm super happy that I see that in the you know, it's about stepping into the markets that are clear, the ones that are not clear or prohibited, we will just not serve them and we'll patiently wait. We'll patiently wait until regulators will actually say that well, look, this is what regulations we are rolling out. We will study it and then based on that, we will decide. Also good. Great thing is that there is a new regulation coming which is called markets in crypto assets, MiCA regulations which will be for European market. And we are already prepared for this regulation.
Filip
I'm excited about what is going on right now. On the same side, on the same side, we cannot forget that the regulations are actually slowing down innovations. I don't want to say that I'm a huge fan of regulations because I see that lots of companies are struggling with getting licenses. For us, it took us one and a half years to get a license to actually be operational. Think about it, we could launched one and a half years ago, but we are waiting for the license. So what I see also, when I was in Dubai, for example, so called regulatory sandbox, where you can operate without license until certain amount of customers, which is a great idea. I like that. So for example, if you want to test out your game, if you want to test out your project and you just don't have the resources to get the license, you don't want to wait because there is no time waiting.
Filip
You just want to test out the idea. You can do that in certain countries until certain amount of users. So I also see that regulators are being quite respective to the point that they are slowing down a bit, the innovations in the market. Yeah.
JP
And I think that having that sandbox is a great idea, at least to prove your market strategy, just check that your MVP works like it should. At least tease into your market base, your target groups, your market base, your customers and get feedback. And it's a very good first step. Needless to say, the entire UAE is making great strides at that innovation. At the same time, when it comes to the metaverse investments for making these places a hub, you're seeing Dubai, you're seeing Abu Dhabi, and you're also seeing now Saudi Arabia coming up with a large thrust from the government to be able to build this up. And I'm certain is that working in your favor too?
Filip
Yeah, for sure. It helps us a lot because multiple projects right now will launch faster and we'll test out their ideas and then we'll, for example, fundraise some capital. We'll get the licenses and we'll start operating in global markets. And when it comes to UAE, it's quite cool because I thought that the hub for startups is Silicon Valley, the place where Apple was born. But understanding I've experienced some work in UAE, I actually think that the new Silicon Valley for web3 is UAE. It's actually Dubai because they're so open to support this industry. It's really lovely to be there, spend some time there to build local contacts. And our plan at Swipelux is that in half a year, we want to build an office there and we want to have headquarters in Dubai. So I'm looking forward for this and I'm really excited about this.
JP
You know, I hope that works out to you. All the best to team Swipelux in doing that. Dubai is, of course a fantastic place, attracting a lot of VCs and therefore attracting a lot of projects. So you're going to be in the. Right place, and I'm glad that's on the charts. Super. Okay to pivot a little to this part of the conversation, right. When it comes to finding new geographies, and this is in terms of the market understanding more that they can utilize Web3, we've seen interesting changes in places like certainly South America, right? El Salvador, the Dominican Republic, Ecuador, all these spaces are beginning to really open up to crypto in many ways, trying to move away from the raw deal that they've had from maybe traditional finance models that kind of built some of the bigger economies. What are some of the insights you can offer when it comes to picking a new location for an organization to expand?
Filip
So I think it's about the breakdown of the demand that is in these countries. Right? So if you break down the countries, you can actually break down, what is their need? Is it just like buying a bitcoin because they can pay taxes with Bitcoin? Or is it more like they are in Asian countries, super interested in games? And then based on that, based on the demand, if people are building companies and building projects, I would probably just go with the vertical that has the highest demand. And based on that, I would pick the regulatory perspective to apply with. What I can say is that being operational in the US is extremely expensive. Like extremely expensive, right. So if you want to be operational in US, prepare at least half a million a year to be operational. It's really expensive. Yeah. And when it comes to Europe, it's much less expensive.
Filip
On the same side, you will be waiting probably for quite some time for a license. Right now, Estonia is a great hub still for getting a license. There is also Lithuania, where you can get the license a bit quicker, I believe, than in Estonia. You can also go to UK and to other multiple countries. But for this, I would advise to have a legal opinion for this one, because some companies just don't have to have a license at the moment, or if they will establish the company. In some jurisdiction, you don't have to have a license, but in different jurisdiction, you have to have a license. For me, it was always like getting a lawyer or legal advisor who is actually Web3 advisor. Web3 lawyer. And I just got into my hands a list of countries in the beginning where we can open the company, how much time it will take, how much money it will cost and what it will mean for us and how it will be prepared for the upcoming regulations.
Filip
And knowing these verticals and answers to these questions, I've just picked the best fit. BVI is also very popular when it comes to having a token foundation. We see it quite often, BVI, British Virgin Island so it really depends on the company and what they are doing. What are they planning to do?
JP
Okay, so that's a perspective one hand in starting to start up a company, right. On the other hand, given that these economies, especially across South America, have begun to open Binance has, for example, already started off their Binance card. They've launched it in Argentina, you know that they're making expansions across Brazil and various other these do these economies begin to attract more interest? And would you see that over time that they would be the ones that will start to lead crypto more in a stronger way than some of the other places?
Filip
Well, it's pretty possible because usually the answer is coming from because the projects are being built all around the world. So usually it's about what kind of web2 institution or web2 element will step into the game? Well, if government will step into the game and will say, well guys, right now it's a legal tender, well, then, yeah, you can expect huge demand for that. For example, if there will be a country that would say, well, right now we can do DeFi loans with our bank, which is actually a bank in legal way, and everything is like great normal web2 bank, then there will be a huge demand for that. So usually when I look in the market, I really am fan of looking when it comes to support that comes from the web2 world. And we can see that again with the gaming.
Filip
Most of the web2 gamings are building web3 games. And then on the Metaverse space, most of the huge companies are at least having a guy that is called Chief Metaverse Officer. I've spoken with Chief Metaverse officers all across different huge companies. When it comes to DeFi, for example, we don't see right now in the market that the banks would be open to, for example, at least be able to accept your risk score, like credit score from your crypto account. So for me, DeFi right now is a bit far away from being adopted. So I would be usually looking at web2 element from the big companies, big institutions or governments stepping into the game.
JP
Right? It's interesting that you say that, and I'm again curious to understand when it comes to DeFi, I know that a lot of banks would give you a loan on shares, especially in the US, Right? They would give you a loan against your shareholdings based on the rating of the shares. They may also do that with certain other commodities, for example bullion or gold, but they would also have a margin up to which they would be able to offer you finance. Do you think that there will come a time where they will see, for example, bitcoin or Ethereum being more of the stables that you can hold if you want to leverage finance and fiat?
Filip
I think that they will have no other chance. I think that the wave is kind of unstoppable. And I think that it will be really similar, I think as back then when banks didn't had a mobile app. My really good friend was one of the first guys that built a digital bank. And I remember that he came into really big bank and he said, guys, I think that people will be managing their finances from a phone. And they were like, oh my God, you are crazy. People will be not doing that. No, it's not going to happen. They will feel so insecure doing it on a phone, it's not secure, blah, blah. Well, and look at how it works today. Right? So I think that it could be similar and the ones that will be fast with accepting this kind of part of the business, they could be taking big advantage of it.
Filip
The ones that will remain the old bankers that just ignores this, they could be badly affected on the same side. I really do think that it's still quite a long way ahead because do you know anyone who would take a loan in some DeFi protocol or who would take a loan in crypto? I don't know anyone. I was speaking with my friend who wanted to take a loan for his business in crypto in some DeFi lending protocol. Well, nothing happened. So I think that DeFi is still kind of far away from actually offering financial products. But it's going the right direction.
JP
Well, it's one day at a time till the time that we actually do see that it's moved to the space that it has to be. Fair enough. Okay. Now, Filip, curiously, what I would like to also see from your perspective, you work a lot with transitioning or choosing companies that are in the web two space or in a brick and mortar space and they move over to a web3 space. Right. Over the next five year horizon, what are some of the companies that you see that will start taking this a lot more seriously and have an increased demand for it?
Filip
Well, that's where I see DeFi. I already see gaming. I already see Metaverse. I think that fashion brands I think that fashion brands and ecommerce will just fall in love with what is offering the Metaverse and the experience that crypto actually can offer. But I think still that the financial world will experience huge innovation. There huge innovation when it comes to payments, when it comes to the lending, when it comes to the credit score. I think that the biggest revolution we will see when it comes to how much money will be going through this and how big of an impact it will have on the world. I still think that the initial idea of crypto, which were payments, will be a huge there. So I didn't want it to put that much of bad light on DeFi. I think that in five years it can be actually DeFi who will destroy the market in a good way and bring the revolution, where anyone in the world with the Internet will have the same access to financial products as I have as a guy who lives in Europe.
Filip
So I think it will be like that.
JP
Well, it certainly is the first domino that has to fall, right? I mean, the moment that you have the money going there, then you'd know that you have regulation that would follow. You know that you'd have other industries that would want to buy in. Yes. I think you've hit the nail on the head when it comes to start with DeFi, and then the rest will follow to expand on it a little more. Once you see the first domino fall, who else do you think? Do you see large capital industries jumping in shipping, real estate, manufacturing, in commodities like steel and so on? Do you see those guys jumping on board, too?
Filip
Well, with shipping, maybe, but for me, it's quite not a huge market comparing to the financial world.
JP
Right?
Filip
Well, probably the next big thing is still the Metaverse and the gaming. I really think that it will be like in a Reddit Player one or how was the film called? The movie called? I really do think that this is how the future will, in a way, look like. And for ecommerce, for advertisements, the Metaverse and along the crypto, it will offer huge benefits. And I have multiple friends building stuff in Metaverse, and it's really insane what they're building. And I have a clear picture of how will the future look like. I'm a bit afraid of it. I don't know what to expect. In a way, it's quite that you'll be living in an online world on the same side while living in normal life. But my friends once told me, why would you like to live in an offline world where you can get harmed, you can get heartbroken, you can lose a lot of money, but in Metaverse, you can be a superman.
Filip
You can have the most beautiful girl in the world. You can have anything you want, like well, yeah, that's true, man. Okay, so let's see what will happen here.
JP
Well, fingers crossed. Fingers crossed. You'd be able to bridge that bridge between reality and virtual reality to make it more real. Right. For some reason, I don't know when it comes to the metaverse, one of the beefs I have is that a lot of the graphics that you have, a lot of the interaction that you have over there still looks like you're playing a PlayStation 2.
Filip
Well, maybe PlayStation 1, but look at the computers. Look at the computers. Early days, you just saw a line of code, and look what you can do right now. So for me, the first step here is augmented reality, where, for example, I would not have to use multiple monitors. I will have just my glasses and have like three monitors. The next steps could be for example, calling with your friends while they'll be sitting in the table next to you in a coffee place because they are on the other side of the world. So I think that the visual side of the movie ready player one is far away from today but I think that there will be a shift to this enhancement of having better experience online. But it's just like really far away. I'm getting too much emotional on this topic. It's an exciting thing.
Filip
And we at Swipelux, we really believe that these segments in the market like the DeFi and the gaming and the metaverse will need a help when it comes to onboarding. And we are here to help to onboard more users, to these beautiful games and to these beautiful builders to have the adoption happening much faster. Because we are the crazy guys who have decided to have the license and to follow the regulations. So we have to remain the mission of helping these companies because we've choose this crazy idea of yeah, let's have a license and let's follow all the regulations. So yeah, we are doing that. So we still have the same mission and I'm super happy for it.
JP
Fantastic. Fantastic. That is certainly a way to go. It's interesting as you're building that arc across, especially across these three mediums is that it's one of the largest mediums because you have the largest amount of audiences exactly in between GameFi and metaverse and of course the ones that could drop that domino in DeFi. So yes, put on yeah sometimes I'm.
Filip
Just thinking about imagine that Fortnite would right now say well and we have NFTs and we have a token, what would happen in their support backlog? It would explode. Like what is that, what is NFT? How do I do that? With us there will be no questions like that. And down the road I really believe that people will not even know that they are using crypto and virtual assets. They will be just using the benefits and it's the responsibility of each builder in this space to understand that people are not as excited as we are about the web3 stuff. They are more excited about the experience and the utilization that you can get out of it. So I think that actually the future of web3 is not web3 actual but the utilization and the things that the web3 is offering.
JP
You’re 100% right about that. Every business since the dawn of time has really just been about the user experience, right? It starts with availability but then today of course it's shifted towards the user experience. The moment we lose focus about that, the less you are going to have people do that because people don't want to change behavior, right? They want to have the same behavior. They want to have the ease of being able to do it. Like you mentioned, your friend spoke about banking. I mean, who would think about having to go to a bank today if you can do your work through a phone? So, interesting times ahead. And I'm glad, Filip, that you and the team at Swipelux are at the forefront of making that happen. Kudos to you guys. My next question to you would be, it is of course challenging being in this particular space and having to build a brand, right.
JP
What are some of the challenges you face to get people to work with this adoption?
Filip
Well, yeah. So for some reason, people just didn't like the Fiat. They're like, well, Fiat is that Fiat doesn't work. We are too crypto savvy people. We don't want to hear anything about Fiat. But when they realize that you will not be able to convince the whole planet to buy a bitcoin, but you actually want to make and offer them like an easy onboarding solution, it hit the nail. So were just pursuing our vision that we have and were just communicating what we really think that is right thing to do right now in the market. We were transparent with the people. I still think that Swipelux has a huge way to go to actually state that we have a huge brand like Nike or other companies. But what we are doing is that we are really trying to be as much transparent as we can, as much honest we can, as much open with customers as we can.
Filip
And we just want to share the journey that we are experiencing and share the vision across multiple companies that we have that the onboarding to web3 will not happen overnight. And you need to offer easy onboarding tools to do that. I think that's important. But what I've seen with the companies we partner up with while building the brand, I think at first you need to build this brand and this vision and the clear understanding of what you are building inside of the team and then just like pushing out the things that you are discussing and the things that are important for you as a person. What I've seen also multiple times that people didn't like what they are building. People were just building it because they wanted to make money, because they wanted to build something that will make them famous, whatever. But this usually don't last long.
Filip
Usually the best people that have the best brand that I've met were extremely passionate about not only their company, but about the industry that they are in. And then when you just keep this flow inside of the company to just make everybody excited about what you are building and in what space you are building, it's somehow falling down automatically. Yeah, that's what I've seen so far.
JP
Right. Well, certainly passion is something that has to translate across the organization. Otherwise it's not something that you would see translating over to your customer. Certainly, again, as simple as that sounds, that is quite difficult to do.
JP
Because you have to break away the complexity of doing that. Right. And I think you did hit the nail on the head when you said that providing that ease of experience is what your customer wants. Okay. So, yeah, point noted. All right, the next question that I have we're coming towards the end of the show, Filip, but you've shared with us an entire journey of yours, an entire journey of Swipelux across various places, across certain specific industry.
JP
And this is something you're doing with every day, right? Including having to wait a year and a half for regulation. That does take a lot of metal. But what is your personal philosophy? Right, Filip? What is it that keeps you going every day?
Filip
Well, sometimes I was questioning this myself. Like, why am I in crypto for seven years? It's kind of crazy, right? So I really do like it. I really do enjoy it. I really do enjoy meeting people and talking with people about this stuff. And I really believe that the world will look completely different in next five to ten years. And I'm proud at Swipelux, we can just do a little help here and there when making this happen, right? So it's about the way how I see the world in five years and what I'm doing right now to help this mission or help the world become this place in five years. So for me, it's about knowing what we are building, knowing why we are building that, and having the possibility to work with the team that I have or like the company has. And that's what makes me going every day meeting with a team is like energy drink.
Filip
that I'm in the office until:Filip
I like the drive. I like the drive. I just like that lifestyle. I really do enjoy it. I really do enjoy it.
JP
Well, thank you for sharing that, Filip. I think that I like how you put that when meeting the team. It's like an energy drink. You should trademark that statement because that is something more organizations need to thrive for, especially when it comes to building a culture. And it really speaks volumes of the culture at Swipelux. Indeed.
Filip
I hope that other feels that way in the team, that I'm not the only guy who is saying that. I think that if you'll ask our colleagues, I think that they would have similar thoughts around that. But for me it's for sure like that.
JP
Well, for certain you're going to get some of that feedback at the office tomorrow. Okay, that concludes the questions that I have. But I do have some questions that have come in from the audience too, as a matter of fact. And this one's from QS. So QS says, Filip, how do we onboard more users onto web3? What are your thoughts for general companies?
Filip
Well, I don't want to promote, only my company is helping with that.
JP
Right.
Filip
So let's take a look on it from the general perspective. So first I think that you should understand who is your audience. So if you understand who is actually your customer and you should visualize it. We are helping web2 audiences. But if you have a tech savvy people who are in love with crypto just build stuff that they enjoy it and talk with your community, talk with them, you usually get the answer from them. But I consider myself as a guy who kind of understands web2 audience. So for web2 audience, what is essential is that first you have a product that they really do enjoy and if you don't have it, you have to change it. So ask the community. But if you do have it and you have a solution or product that is great, then you have to break down where the conversion rate of having a visitor to paid customer or to actual customer is going down.
Filip
So do they have a wallet? If they don't have a wallet, integrate a solution that enables you to create a wallet with just a couple of clicks. If there are people who don't have a crypto and they are struggling with how to get it, well then integrate this. If you have problems with actually getting the customers well, ask yourself why is that? Is it because that you are doing something wrong on the marketing side? Well then just be creative. Like be creative on the marketing side. Some things that I've saw in the market that somehow works is for example the giveaways or attracting just like more people to the project itself. But then you have to convince them that you are the one that they spend time with. I think that the community building is really important there. So if you have a community, I would highly recommend having some professional who actually can speak with the people however they want.
Filip
Engage with the community, do some gameFi with them and speak publicly about what you are building and be passionate about what you are building as well in the first place. And it will come down. But also on the same side. Sometimes when you are building a company and having a product that people that you don't have a people there. Well, maybe it's time to be quite honest with you, that it's just not the right thing to do right now. That your idea has not been the greatest and you have to change it into something else. But also you can get this from your customers. I think that it's about talking with your customers, getting a feedback from them, actually looking at the data and deciding based on that. I was doing this mistake by myself as well when I was thinking that I'm the most clever guy in the world and I have all the answers.
Filip
But no, that's not right. You have to get the answers from the market. So talk with the community, talk with the customers, do a market research. Who is your competitor, why they are better than you, what they are doing differently, how can you better than them, how can you deliver more to your customers? And questioning yourselves about these things can help you a lot more to navigate throughout the market and what you have to build and what you have to do.
::JP
Exactly. Listen to your customer. The market is your best teacher, no matter what project you're in, whatever it is that you're building, if you don't have a market for it's just a fantastic idea that you've put money in. But that's where it yeah, in.
::Filip
A way, yes, that's true.
::JP
Super. Filip, thank you so much for being part of the show today. Appreciate your time and appreciate all the insights. This has certainly been one of the easiest, most interesting conversations that I've had. I hope you had fun being on the show today.
::Filip
It was fantastic. Thank you. So I really did enjoy it. I'm glad that we spoke about topics. I hope that people mainly enjoyed it and they've got some insights and thank you so much for inviting me.
::JP
Glad to have you, ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much. That was Filip from Swipelux. You can send messages to them straight away. If you have any questions that we've not been able to ask on the show, some of the questions that have come in, feel free to send them to AdLunam Inc. or to Swipelux directly and we will have them answered for you. Once again, thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for being on the show. For those of you that have stayed back to listen to the announcement, we will be announcing the winners of our Easter giveaway later today, so you have to wait no further. Thank you so much for being a part of it. This has been JP from AdLunam Inc. bringing you everything about web3. Have a great day. Cheers.
