Spiritual NFTs-Suveett Kalra

Spiritual NFTs-Suveett Kalra

Participants:

• Nadja Bester (CEO & Co-founder of AdLunam)

• Suveett Kalra (Founder of Satyug)

00:22

Nadja

Awesome. So I'm going to get started. It is that time of the week again. Tuesday is the day when we look into our crystal balls to what the Future of NFTs have in store for the world. But before we do that, a final reminder that the closing date for AdLunam's Non Fungible talent season one is today. So NFT artists, if you haven't submitted your entry already, get cracking. We have over 300 entries of beautiful works of art already and our judges is going to have a really hard time of it selecting the best of the best because they are just all so good. Big shout out to all of those amazingly talented artists who have been entering their stunning works into our competition. We love you. Keep them coming. And if you don't get a chance before today's closing hour, there is always Non Fungible talent season two.

01:18

Nadja

So on today's very interesting episode. Let me start with the introduction. Hey, web3 world. This is Nadja Bester from AdLunam, and you are listening to the Future of NFTs, the show that looks beyond current NFT use cases and dives into what Non Fungible Token technology is evolving into. All this as seen through the eyes and built by the minds of the fascinating guest speakers we speak to each week. AdLunam is the only IDO Launchpad that rewards attention with allocation and our Engage to Earn platform features, dynamic NFT investor profiles, NFT allocation fractionalization, and our one of a kind Proof of Attention allocation mechanism. You can catch Future of NFT's live on Twitter Spaces every Tuesday and do subscribe to us on your favorite podcast streaming platform to get notified of new episodes, as well as our sister show Diving into Crypto, which is live every Thursday and can also be found on all podcast streaming platforms.

02:28

Nadja

Join us for both shows as we speak to thought leaders and change makers in this game changing industry. Now onto today. If the title of today's show has piqued your interest, today is our 13th episode, which feels very relevant because not only is 13 one of my favorite numbers, but we'll be touching on topics not often spoken about in the NFT space, namely spirituality. And as you might know, 13 is one of those numbers where there's a lot of sort of omens and mysticism around it. Some say it's a very unlucky number. Hotels, buildings often don't even have a 13th floor. But I think that today's guest is going to help us see the other side of NFTs, just as they might be another side, a more positive side to the number 13 as well. So here at AdLunam, we are on a perpetual deep space exploration mission to discover the furthest reaches of what the technology behind NFTs and the wide variety of use cases it leads to are capable of.

03:38

Nadja

And today is definitely no different. So if you are keen on broadening the way you think about NFTs, our guest promises to help you do just that. We are joined today by Suveett Kalra, the founder of spiritual metaverse app Satyug. I hope I'm pronouncing that right, Suveett, which offers users the ability to listen to this play, meditate and yoga to earn, as well as worship to spend. So if that tickles your curiosity bone, stay tuned for what promises to be a very enlightening hour. As always, I will open the room up for questions at the end, when you can either put in a speaker request or you can DM your question anonymous or not. To the AdLunam Twitter handle AdLunam Inc. So, Suveett, welcome to the Future of NFTs. Where are you dialing in from today?

04:33

Suveett

So, thank you so much for inviting me over Nadja and the AdLunam community. I am absolutely delighted and thrilled to be here as part of the twitter space on Spiritual NFTs. So I'm dialing in right now from New Delhi. That's where I'm based from. Yeah.

04:50

Nadja

So before I hand the mic to Suveett, I'll give you a brief background of his experience. Suveett has been in the chemical business for decades, until nearly ten years ago, when, together with his partner in business and in life, he ventured into the food innovation business. So if you are a Delhi Indian native, you might have feasted on the thalis at Ardor 2.1 in Connor Place or Ardor 29 in Sector 29, Gurgaon. Suveett is not only well versed in traditional business sectors, but also in cutting edge technology. He is a full stack software developer. He is Delhi NCR. Chairman of the Trade Promotion Council for Robotics and Automation. And of course, closer to home, he is a bitcoin activist as well as a Web3 founder. So Suveett has assured us that his views, while possibly controversial, will leave a lot of food for thought.

05:53

Nadja

So, on the one hand, disclaimer that the views of our guests are independent of that of AdLunam minute's hosts. But at the same time, I have heard some chatter about the Satyug dow aspiring to be a network state and Suveett’s conviction that the next wave of crypto adoption will be politically driven. So let's dive right in. Suveett, before we get into the meaty parts of today's discussion, I'll start you off with something a little easier. Tell us more about your background and what makes you tick.

06:27

Suveett

Thank you so much, Nadja. That was more than an introduction and something I could have only dreamt of. Thank you so much for that. But yes, so I've been an entrepreneur all my life, and I started at the age of 16 I was on a scootie at that time, and I went into chemical distribution business, built it into a scalable business before I sold it off for $10 million to Nippon Paints, Asia Private Limited. Been into the food industry. What I tick, I personally feel, is the ability to always learn unlearn and relearn. So I think if I were to say that this is the only trait that will matter in the next ten years is when you have to develop new skills and skills for which you might not be so willing, but you must be willing if you really want to succeed. And I think that's the thing that really ticks for me is all I can say.

07:19

Nadja

Yeah, absolutely brilliant. I think that exactly your mantra of learn unlearn. Relearn is for sure the secret source to what is to come in future, and especially in this industry, because we are questioning at the same time so many very firmly entrenched belief systems and operational systems, but we are venturing into territory that really no man or no woman has gone into before. So this ability to really stay agile and flexible, not only in terms of the industry, but also, I think, your own mind is very important. So you have a background combining many diverse interests and skills. How did you get into the world of Web3 with all its NFT and Metaverse bells and whistles?

08:09

Suveett

09:08

Suveett

But imagine a guy who's delivering food or a person who's really ordering. So I mean, like, he's spending 25% of his monthly budget on food bills just because he doesn't want to cook food. And he's such a novice in cooking food that he only wants to order food through Zomato. Now imagine in such a situation where he's spending 25% of his monthly income on Zomato. Does he get the appreciation of Zomato stock price appreciation or the dividend on the equities? No, the only thing that he gets is maybe that okay, Zomato recognizes him, but the fact of web2 versus web3 has always been that the user has always gotten neglected, at least economically, financially. Now is the time. If you could actually understand NFTs as a concept which is nothing but tokenization of the world, tokenization of businesses. Imagine if the delivery boy who actually delivers food within 20 minutes is incentivized with Zomato tokens.

10:07

Suveett

I am assuring you there will never be a time than he will actually going to get late. And I assure you that a person who orders, let's say 25% of his monthly income spends on Zomato and if he starts to earn tokens I can assure you this number will never leave 25%, it will only increase from there. And imagine that this guy, apart from earning tokens which are from Zomato also gets let's say an assurance of 25 minutes that he will only get the food within 25, otherwise the order is free. Or maybe he gets a 25 discount every time. Or maybe that he can actually buy a loyalty card from Zomato. But eventually, after two years in the secondary market, whatever he spent as the loyalty card membership, apart from the discounts that he actually entertained from Zomato, he can actually sell that in the secondary market or sell it back to Zomato at the same price at what he bought it.

11:01

Suveett

So this entire thing is so mind boggling and so intriguing to the curious minds like me that I thought that this is the space to be in for the next decade. Because, as you see, economies unwinding because of the high debt to GDP ratios and concentration of power in few hands and the internet being built and bullied by four or five or ten different big companies. The only advent from there onwards is decentralization and user owned economies and user benefiting token economies. And perhaps also that you could actually start to see the technology over a period of time becomes completely free for the frequent user. So that's my two center take on this. That's what really interested me.

11:49

Nadja

It's so interesting Suveett, that you use this example of Zomato. I travel quite a lot to different countries and it's often a topic of discussion in our family in terms of service delivery at a restaurant for instance. In some countries you have this incentive of the tipping system is very prevalent and you see people in the food serving industry obviously having that incentive. The better the service, the higher the chance that they will get a good tip from the customer, for instance. And then you have some countries where tipping really is not part of the culture, and waiters might get a salary and of course, not a very big salary. And you can see their approach also to service, delivery, follow suit, in the sense, well, why should I go above and beyond? Because I'm only ever going to get X amount. And I think this really touches on this concept of user owned economies, as you mentioned, where we have traditionally coming from.

12:50

Nadja

If you think about the middle age sort of feudal system all the way today, we still have this very unequal power hierarchy in the sense that those at the top are the ones that reap all of the benefits and the lower down the hierarchy you are. Because of course this is not only in the pre internet world but also in Web2 and Web1, how we have been thinking about the mass populace is who's at the top and it's this pyramid, it's always the pyramid where the majority of people are on the bottom rung. And then of course, the more exclusive you are in your status as a person in the industry that you're in, the more cream you get at the top. But really the idea that with Web3, I mean, of course there's a long way to go. So it's not anything of the sense that okay, plug and play, we are ready to kind of topple these systems, but bit by bit, steadily, we are really contributing to building this really just an alternative way of thinking about the world.

13:57

Nadja

So I know that one of the things that Satyug is looking at is forming a dow. So I would like to speak a little bit more about that before we get into really the meat of today's topic, since it is quite a loaded topic. Religion, spirituality, politics, those are topics that are almost guaranteed to mess up any family lunch if you bring it up. I want to start just by defining what you mean when you refer to spirituality, especially for the sake of people in the audience who might consider themselves to not be religious or spiritual at all.

14:34

Suveett

15:22

Suveett

First they built up the good machines which took over the blue collar chaps. Now it's taking up the knowledge industry as well. So the AI can write software, it can exponentially increase its power. So the knowledge worker is also going to get displaced in the next ten years. In my opinion, what will be left is, I guess, a narrator based economy. So if you can really narrate it well, you will really be the one who can actually control the AI. Tell him exactly what your narration is. So Satyug is again a narration in that sense. Coming to your second question, what is the difference between religion and spirituality? So in my opinion, religion is something that we seek, we believe in, because somebody else believed in, let's say your mom told you that in the age when you were at four or five years that you're a Christian or Protestant or my mom told me that I'm a Hindu and I have to worship this God.

16:16

Suveett

And then you create that belief structure that there exists a superior power or a supernatural God who exists somewhere in the heavens and he's guiding everybody. And that's religion. In my opinion, spirituality is more important. Spirituality is all about seeking your own self. It's about exploring your own self. And now again, coming back to the topic of Satyug. So basically, what is Satyug in that sense is that Satyug is about exploring what you're good at and why not to monetize it. Because we are in a web3 tokenized economy, we can actually monetize what people are good at. And I personally feel that 90% of the people are really good at spirituality or religion or yoga or meditation or game theory or play or sex or leverage or whatever. But this is what humans have really excelled in over centuries. I cannot say everybody listening here is a software coder.

17:10

Suveett

And even if they want to be, they might not be able to become a software coder and actually write lines of code. But does that mean that they do not have anything else to do because their job has been automated? I think there is a lot to do in terms of rewarding creators and narrators of the future. And this narration is what led to Satyug is the concept and Satyug is the Tao. If you want, you can take it from here or else I can actually decipher it more for you.

17:37

Nadja

Yeah. Awesome. I love what you said about this idea of a narrative based economy and especially with the addition of AI. I mean, we've seen AI go from, as you say, replacing workers starting with the industrial era going onwards. But now we're at the point, all of these art generation tools where really as an artist, your role is to tell the AI what they need to create or what it needs to create. So we are really moving from this really just economy of we are the workers and it's more brawn than brain. And even when we did have the brain, we are now seeing that AI is replacing even those brains. So I think for a lot of people, the question that have been coming up is, well, if AI is going to replace all of these many different things, especially as you say, the focus is now more on knowledge workers, then what is left for us to do?

18:37

Nadja

And it's fascinating you saying that Satyug is more about exploring and monetizing what you are good at. And it really brought to mind for me this idea that spirituality for sure means different things to different people. To some they hear the word and it's like oh no, I don't believe in that stuff. And for others, of course, they are all in with every single place on the spectrum in between. But this concept of being able to focus on something, I think that makes us uniquely human. If there is a chance to monetize this, then that is a really fascinating thing to think about. So on that note, I want to know a little bit more about Satyug as a spiritual metaverse. How do NFTs play a role in this ecosystem? And really just what would the day to day look like if I were a user of the Satyug app?

19:34

Suveett

So see, I'll come to this question after one more statement that I would like to add here. See I can also decipher it more simply. Like in religion, when you believe something because somebody told you to believe in it, so you obviously believe in it. In spirituality, it's like I ask the question, who believes in God? Have you seen God? And he says no, I haven't. Then I ask him how do you know that God exists? And somebody who doesn't believe in God, I ask him, okay, how do you know that he does not exist? So the idea of spirituality in my opinion is to explore and to keep exploring. And this is a never ending exercise in my opinion. Now, coming to your point of what really Satyug is. So Satyug is basically a metaverse app which is basically wrapped in unreal Engine Five SDK.

20:19

Suveett

So we basically plan to create AAA game, which is basically a play to earn game in which you choose your clan. And the game is not only about fighting and like you normally see all the games, the game is also about choosing a clan and choosing your NFTs. Okay, this is your Ruth is the chariot on which you move on which you want to fight. If you want to choose the clan of fighters, the warriors. But then there are other clans also. There are clans of peasantry. Like you have to go to the jungle and actually grow some food. In fact, if you've lost to another clan, then also you will be disposed of from your assets and your land and you have to go to the jungle and actually grow some food and then earn some money and then actually come back by buying those NFTs to fight another war with the other warriors who won before.

21:03

Suveett

Or else you could actually, if you have money, you can go to the kasha partners. KashaParnas are basically banks which lend you money. So you can obviously go to the bank, put down some of your assets or some other NFTs from other metaverses as collateral and then you can borrow money from them and with that you can purchase the in game assets of Kalyug. Then you can again start playing as a warrior if you want to. So this is a game theoretical model of one portion of Satyug which is called Kriya. Now there are other portions of Satyug also which is basically called yoga. Yuga is basically yoga to earn. So imagine if you're just doing yoga so we're just giving you money for basically exercising even if your posters are not correct. If you just post a 1 minute video of doing yoga, we reward you with some Kaluk tokens.

21:49

Suveett

Or if you're just doing meditation which is called Diana in Sanskrit, we again pay you with Kaluk tokens. Now the idea is, what do you do with all those Kaluk tokens? Again, we built some game theory around it. So either you can go to the AMM and convert those Kaluk tokens back into Fiat or other cryptos, or you can convert it into the government token, which is called Satyug, in which we plan to have real life. Partnerships with religious organizations, spiritual gurus, astrology, astrologers or renowned spiritual seekers and stuff and maybe mandars and temples and churches and trust boards and stuff like that. So the idea is that let's say you've bought some Satyug tokens and you can actually now go into the Satyug. You can do real life 360 degree view dashans of these religious sites in real time in the metaverse. And let's say when you go to a church or a mandir, you just don't go at least in a temple India, you don't go empty handed.

22:44

Suveett

You generally go with some arthi or some prashad or some agarbati which is like a candlestick which you give to the gods or maybe some water which you want to give to the gods or maybe some food that you want to give to the gods. So these are again NFT stores that we plan to have in the Satyug metaverse. So there is a lot of monetization aspects in this and there's a lot of game theory in Satyug. Now in my opinion, I personally feel that this is the grand vision which is basically aided by the Satyug Dao. Now, what is the Satyug dow? The Satyug Dao is basically a nonprofit political, It's a political organization, let me put it like this, which basically is going to have a lot of influence and which only has a singular mission which is that of giving.

23:26

Suveett

Imagine if you want to become a member of the Satyug Dow just because you hold a lot of Satyug tokens, fine, you become a member of the Dow. But if you want to become a member of the legislature which basically enacts the rules and proposes the rules on which the other Dow members, as members, have to actually vote on just to propose the rule. You basically need to be giving away 10% of your wealth. So it's a game theory of giving away wealth, a philanthropically cycle of life in which if you've made some money in order to reach another position of status, which is the Satyug legislature, you basically need to give 10% of your on chain wealth. And similarly, then there are levels of Saturday executive in which you need to be giving away even more wealth. And how you give that wealth is another story which we've embedded in the white paper.

24:08

Suveett

If you guys can actually go through and read that, it will be great because I think it will be too much of information and knowledge to digest in one episode. So the idea is first, Sati is about spirituality in the field of meditation, yoga and religion. Second, it's about real life utility. I personally feel that NFTs as a concept of tokenizing, the world still cannot work because it's so nascent unless and until NFTs really have real world utility. At the moment, what I see as NFTs is just a pointer to some data on the blockchain which gives you the authenticated rights to the NFT and to sell and buy that NFT at a speculative profit. But that could not be the end goal of an NFT. The end goal of tokenization has to be that it has to have a real world utility. I yield it back to you, otherwise my speech will go on like another 30 minutes.

24:55

Suveett

So please go on.

24:57

Nadja

Awesome. Well, I can happily listen to you for the next 30 minutes and thankfully I will be able to do just that. I have a question around this concept of Web3 advising of Web3 affying spirituality. I think you've mentioned somewhere in something that I read that the term the total addressable market for this audience sector is $440,000,000,000, I think with a potential year on year growth of ten to 20%. Now, those are some really compelling numbers. And if I take into account your earlier comment about the essence of Web3 being kind of enabling people to explore and monetize something that they are good at, how do you see, let's say, this merge of two very seemingly different ways of seeing the world? Web3, where we are tokenizing everything, and so much of it is about hype and profit. But on the other hand, this concept of spirituality where people are going within and exploring and connecting to, let's say, the softer, more abstract part of life, why Web3 affies spirituality?

26:14

Suveett

So I think there are two questions again that you ask basically. First. Is that why web3? Because I personally told you that you were actually entering into a narrator based economy. The more you can narrate, the better you're going to be and if you have to really narrate first you have to be good at what you're narrating, otherwise you will never be able to actually succeed. So if you're really good at yoga, you can always teach yoga. If you're really good at math, you can always teach math. But if you're only mediocre, then obviously your job will be replaced by the AI. So now the question is why Web3? The idea is that as I told you, so many things are going to be automated because we are having technology after technology and their scurvy meeting as per Metcalf's Law, that so many things will be automated in the next ten years that it will actually give humans a lot of free time.

27:01

Suveett

In fact, that's what I call abundance of time. Now imagine if you have real abundance of time, what would you like to do if technology cost us close to zero and you have all the time in the world to actually explore what you wanted to do. So I think you would actually like to work as if it's play to you rather than it's work to you. When you start to play in your work, you obviously practice hard. That's only the way it becomes play to you over a period of time with the help of other people who tell you that you're really good at it gives you some sense of accomplishment and then you start to feel that you're really good because it gives you that extra confidence. Now, if I were to tell you that you can actually monetize this also you're really good at it looks play to you can actually monetize it, would you not want to do it?

27:52

Suveett

Because eventually, as I'm telling you, that we are into a narrator based economy in the next ten years, the only thing that you have to now do is just to keep playing and narrating it and let others learn from your experience until and unless they get honed to the extent that they also start to play that game. Because what else otherwise humans will do when they have a lot of time. It's not that they're going to sit and only talk with their family. Obviously they need social cohesion, Twitter spaces, they need Instagram, they need so many things, they need to bond with people and if it just looks like play to them, the entire day is gone while you've actually played around, but you've still made some money. Which is obviously the essence because it's the information system that governs everybody of us. That's the essence of Web3.

28:36

Suveett

So I think we are moving into that direction. The only thing that I fear or I don't agree with at the moment is because at this moment what I personally feel we are in such a nascent stage in this industry that eventually I feel 99% of the protocols or platforms will actually eventually die. Because if the idea. Is only to have a speculative game economy in which there is an exchange or transfer of sale or speculation of tokens based on the value. It is never going to succeed eventually it is only going to be when it is. First, real life utility. Second thing, since blockchain is nothing but a database, unless and until this database really becomes cheaper than a web2 database or a centralized database, it will still not succeed. And third thing is that imagine that let's say the governments tomorrow start to unwind their debts and it becomes a deflationary spiral.

29:32

Suveett

Or maybe Facebook or different kinds of other platforms start to deplatform people who have like millions of followers and it starts to become like a cult and people start to protest. These are the only ways I see that web3 will actually increase even without utility. Otherwise keeping other things constant. The only way to increase web3 adoption is through utility and utility alone. And that's exactly what we are planning to do in Satyug. Imagine that you're really good as a guide who can really show around people good space in the metaverse. So would you like to be that guide for the few hundred people who have entered into Lord Kedarnath temple and tell them, okay, this is the essence of Lord Kedarnath, this is how you used to look like, this is in the year, this is how he killed that giant whatever, that monster or whatever.

30:25

Suveett

So the idea is about would you like to be that guide and earn money? So if the answer is yes, obviously because it's play to you and you have real life utility that you're solving for other people, hence you can monetize it. And why not? So the idea is to have, one way or the other, a lot of utility plus the cost advantage has to really go to the marginal cost of web2. Otherwise we will never be able to succeed in my personal opinion. Otherwise there will always be an aggregator who will be another aggregator on top of another aggregator eventually until, unless it reaches the top of the funnel. Just like what we have today with Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, monetizing, everything because they're the top most of the top most aggregators. I yield back to you.

31:06

Nadja

Yeah. Awesome. Suveett, thank you so much for that. I think you touched on so many important points, including this idea that we've really been hearing about for a while, that as automization increases, people will increasingly have more time on their hands. Now I'm personally waiting for that day when time abundance becomes one of the things that I can experience because for sure I'm not there yet. But really this idea, I think as you said, that unless something really radical is going to happen to these traditional systems that we are all part of, web3 is going to have a hard time of it. Really getting that mass adoption without real world utility, which of course every time that we have a crypto winter at the end of it, all of those who just came on board to get the quick hype are gone and then we start seeing the real use cases come to fore again.

31:59

Suveett

But I'm wondering, real world utility along with cost advantage and I personally feel cost advantage is never going to be as compared to a centralized database, but eventually that's the only reason, the only way we can succeed is to have real world utility.

32:12

Nadja

Yeah, thank you for highlighting the cost advantage as well because I think that is a really important point too. There's this school of thought, like obviously we are part of that school of thought and I suppose almost all of the listeners in the audience today is something new is being built and we are part of it, even warts and all. There might be a lot of problems, but we are here for it and we are growing and building steadily. But there's this mass global population of people who are not going to leave the world that they are so familiar with the Web2 world as we live in today for Web3, if they are not all of these benefits that they currently have in Web2. I mean this idea of you don't know what you're missing if you've never had it. So we might be able to say, oh, but there's all of these benefits to Web3.

33:02

Nadja

But to someone who's not well versed or schooled in this kind of thinking at all, they are mostly looking at the Hype and the high cost and the problems and the hacks and all of these things. So I'm wondering, you have mentioned these opportunities like yoga to earn, meditate to earn, et cetera. Do you believe that this is going to be a good entry point to onboard new users into Web3 that otherwise might not have ventured into this industry at all?

33:32

Suveett

Yeah, exactly. That is the whole goal. We basically need to have things which people are good at. See what Web3 is really good at today is all developers talking between other developers and in their own echo chambers, talking high level stuff which nobody on the ground understands. To be honest. I don't know how many of you are here, developers, maybe we can have a show of hands, but I'm sure that even the developers don't really understand some of the high level developers talking between themselves. So the idea is that if you really want to promulgate some technology amongst the millions or the billions, you really need to create campaigns or memes or something which touches the lives of billions. In fact, this is one of the ways that we are in fact starting to build out our MVP. Also the minimum viable product that we're building.

34:20

Suveett

We basically want to start in a web2 styled way. I'll just to give you an example, what if I were to just tell you and just take it like a meme like an example, okay, that let's say were to launch a campaign in Europe, and it has to be a really good campaign, which can be just forwarded on WhatsApp? In which all the people in Europe, maybe Germans, or let's say starting with the French, who own cats, they can slap Putin, and the ones who do not own cats have to kiss him. But not the people themselves. The cats, which are the NFTs, which they first need to buy. They have to actually kiss Putin or the cats have to slap Putin. How many people would actually like to actually go ahead and buy those cats? Second thing, let's say if I were to add on another layer on top of it.

35:13

Suveett

36:00

Suveett

How many people do you think will actually buy those NFTs? Just out of fun and curiosity, I think if I'm not wrong, if we do it in the right way, perhaps a lot of people will buy. So the idea is to create campaigns or memes, either campaigns and memes, which are really touching people because they are high value entertainment for people. Or you have to create real life utility, as I told you in the first instance. Or else you have to create a gamification model in which you basically have a higher meaning or a higher purpose, let's say, just to give you an example, in the case of Hindus, like I'm a Hindu, we believe in Lord Ram, which the gods of God, of all gods. Now imagine if I were to tell everybody, okay, let's contribute a brick and build a virtual Ram temple for Ram to live in.

36:48

Suveett

I am sure there will be hundreds of millions of Hindus who will just come together and actually contribute that brick, which is basically an NFT. And if they were to redeem that NFT, they have to go to my app and actually go ahead and download a wallet and then redeem that NFT. In this way, either through a higher sense or purposeful calling of people or through a real life utility or through a meme, we can basically onboard billions onto web3 because one way or the other, we are creating some kind of utility for them. Unless and until we do this, I personally feel Web3 doesn't stand a chance. I yield back to you, please.

37:26

Nadja

38:25

Nadja

But then you also have this idea of just a really bonded experience of meaning and purpose. For example, spirituality, where people from all around the world can gather around a belief that they share or some or other philosophy that is shared experience at the end of the day. And that this technology gives you that vehicle for people to really come together in the virtual space. But I'd like to zoom out a little bit to the broader industry landscape. In your opinion, what is the overall Future of NFTs? Keeping in mind that there are all of these different entry points into this technology and how do you think it's going to evolve from this current manifestation where we are seeing, I think, a very limited utility, as you touched on earlier. A lot of it is just this proof of ownership on the blockchain and it's not much more than that.

39:20

Nadja

But how are we going to get from where we are today to a future where it's just a lot more inclusive, whoever you are and whatever your use case is.

39:31

Suveett

So I'm one of the few people who's actually interacting with this industry for quite some time, but there are so many more talented people who are now swanking this industry. And I'm very sure that there will be lots and lots of real world and practical use cases that will be developed because eventually tokenization and ownership, these are very powerful concepts. Again, humans want ownership. Humans want to show off that social noise through the ownership of those assets. Let's say, imagine if you were to come to my restaurant and I tell you that because you own this particular NFT from my restaurant, there are only about 10,000 NFTs. Now, imagine you're coming on a Friday or a Saturday at a peak hour, but you don't have to wait even 1 second because you're the loyalty card or the NFT holder. So that is basically, again, a social noise.

40:20

Suveett

41:14

Suveett

So I think eventually where there is money, there's going to be a lot of scams. So we can't avoid that. But yeah, as a concept, NFT is very powerful is all I can say.

41:23

Nadja

Yield back to you again, absolutely, 100% agree with you on the power of NFT. So much of which we haven't yet even explored or we can't even fathom yet. So, yeah, good future ahead, interesting future ahead. I want to know what I mean, we've heard already so much about your views on the Satyug and the possibilities in terms of linking this concept of spirituality with NFTs and with the metaverse. What is unique about your approach to creating NFTs?

41:57

Suveett

42:54

Suveett

So would you actually would like to go ahead and sell that NFT? So the idea of spiritual NFT is all about something which has a higher meaning, more epic calling and in case that kind of NFT is launched in the market, people will generally not like to sell that. Yeah, of course we can always build game theory around it. People who really want to still profit can obviously do that or somebody who wants to build his relationship with God and spirituality and wants to buy that is a separate issue. But the idea is that if I were to say that you have to follow a very stringent, strict routine of going to the Satya Gap every day and doing puja of Lord Shiva or Lord Ganesha or maybe Jesus Christ. And you have to offer him something every day. And you've done this for 365 days.

43:41

Suveett

And as a proof of work of you doing this, you actually get this specific NFT, which is then special to you. And then because of this NFT, you get this benefit. Would you actually like to go ahead and sell that NFT? My question to you.

43:56

Nadja

Well, first of all, I want to say that this is definitely the most interesting use case that I have ever heard for NFTs because I think there are not many people out there who have thought along these lines. Yeah, and it's a really fascinating concept because as you say, you build up such a personal relationship not only with the personal relationship that you have in terms of your spirituality, but you also build up this personal relationship with this metaverse that you are in, this app that you are using, the NFTs that you are creating. So it's really taking something that we have been thinking of in the sense of this practical utility like the business use cases. And it's very interesting what you are building with Satyug because I think the principles remain and I see so many just similarities between what people in religious and spiritual practices, for example, are already doing on a daily basis.

44:54

Nadja

But really just taking it into the virtual world and getting into the same kind of practices that they are doing offline but as you say, linking it to this idea of being able to monetize something that you are. Already doing, being able to build up this proof of work, so to speak, in the terms of proof of yoga, proof of meditation, et cetera. So it's a really fascinating concept. But going back to this whole idea.

45:25

Suveett

Can I add one thing here?

45:26

Nadja

I'm sorry.

45:27

Suveett

The idea is that this is not the only kind of NFTs that Satyug will have. There will always be NFTs which are basically programmable and which can be bought with money. And then obviously these are exchangeable with other NFTs or other in game assets which we plan to create. But the idea is that if there were some NFTs which were so epic meaning and epic calling, on the basis of which you get some Karma points, let's assume because you've earned those NFTs, now you will not like to sell those NFTs. But if you were to actually accumulate more Karma points because you've consistently engaged yourself in that disciplinary schedule, and with those Karma points, you actually start to engage in some other activities which are not limited which are limited to other people. Obviously that will also be another sense of accomplishment which will add to your inner meaning and inner calling that okay, I'm doing this for my fun, for my play, for my spirituality and I'm actually earning this NFT.

46:18

Suveett

But on top of it, because I'm earning this NFT, I'm actually also getting some real world utility because of the comma points that have actually accumulated on behalf of that NFT also. So the idea is to build something game theoretical. And again, the idea is to create it in such a narrative that people actually don't feel like doing this because they have to do it, because they have to make money with it, but just because they do it. Because of the fact that they love to do it, and on top of it, because they're doing it, they actually start to earn money. And that's what I call, at the end of the day, about real life utility of NFTs or the fact that because all the things in the world will be automated over the next ten years, so why not build monetary benefits over things which people are good at and then they can monetize it?

47:03

Suveett

Because they're good at it. Yield back again, sorry.

47:06

Nadja

No, I love that idea of at the end of the day what you are good at, what you are interested in. There is a way to kind of merge these two worlds of we are so hyper focused on the economy out there, but what about the economy within? How can that be monetized? So really fascinating discussion, Suveett. I'm going to because I see there's a whole list of questions that the team is forwarding me from the audience. So I'm going to just ask you a final question before I hand it over for questions. If you would like to ask Suveett a question, you can either go ahead or put in a speaker request or you can DM your question to the AdLunam team. So Suveett’s, final question. What is your philosophy about web three changing lives?

47:54

Suveett

I am generally very pragmatic these days, not too philosophical, but yeah, as a philosophy I personally am a very big Bitcoin advocate. People will say I'm a maximalist, but I'm not. Because if I had been a maximalist I would have thought everything else has no utility, but I'm only a maximalist to the extent that Bitcoin is money. But eventually all the other things like NFTs and other protocols and DeFis and AMMS and NFTs, all these are utilities. Let's imagine you're into a big island with only money and there is nothing to buy in that island. So what will that money buy you? Zero. The idea is that you need utility, you need message bus systems and that's why all these protocols exist. Coming to the second point that what is the philosophy behind web3? In my opinion? I've always stated it very categorically that I would love to see more equitable distribution of wealth based upon talents of people.

48:47

Suveett

And the only way that we can do it actually is by actually creating real world utility. Because the cost advantage I don't see web2 versus web3 or the only thing that we should not be hoping for but eventually happening in the world is the fact that you see all the power getting concentrated into dictators and governments taking unnecessarily harsh decisions on their citizens like Lockdowns. And the fact that rich people are getting more concentrated with their wealth, which eventually leads to societal collapse. If this happens obviously again decentralization and NFTs irrespective of their cost advantage or disadvantage will earn value. But we must not be banking on this. We should at least be hoping that we first create, if not a cost advantage, but something which has real world utility and something which can usher us into that narrative based economy wherein users are equally compensated.

49:38

Suveett

Not only for the appreciation of the tokens, but also the company's balance sheet, which is today only getting paid out as dividends to the shareholders or the equity holders of that company and not the token holders of that company. So that's the goal of having more equitable distribution of wealth through narrator based economies, through user owned experiences and user owned tokens and those tokens which eventually lead to not only the token appreciation because a lot of number of people hold that. And the network effect as per Metcalf's law increases the token's value over a period of time but also the fact that the token holders get to have a say in the company or a share of the profit of the company. Again, my views would be a little controversial in terms of, say of the company, because I personally feel that Dows also today are not in a very nascent stage.

50:36

Suveett

And generally, if you were to really achieve something in a very big organization, also, it's only about 20% of the people who are really working hard. And these are the guys who actually put in their sweat, tears, money, heart, everything. And their vision in which they create value for the other 100% also. 80% also. And these are the guys who actually should be earning more money and that's what capitalism is all about. So eventually if you only have Dows in the current form today in which every member is voting what the logo of the dow should be. Eventually the worst logo will be selected. It's like there should be sections within sections as to what sections should be governed directly by the dow and what sections should be governed by the legislature of the dow. And that's what Satyug is also positioning itself. There's a legislature, there's an executive, because eventually I personally feel that this is where we headed.

51:20

Suveett

But I think I'm a little too fast in my calculations and maybe people will have to catch on with my thought process, or maybe I'm wrong, I do not know. But that's the way I see personally that this is the way the world is progressing.

51:33

Nadja

David, awesome. It has been a highly interesting hour. I'm going to try to get through as many of the audience questions as possible before we wrap up. So first one, let's see here is Satyug only for Hindus?

51:51

Suveett

No, not at all. Satyug is not at all only for Hindus. Satyug basically means sat means the right truthful and yug means yuga, which is the period of time. So it's the right and truthful period of time. You can also call it Satoshi Yog, like after Satoshi Nakamoto, who I consider as the god of crypto, because Satoshi Yog is the period of time post hyperbitcoinization of the world, because eventually we will see hyperbitcoinization. There is no other alternative in my mind that I see the way world progressing towards today. Having said that, answering your question again, no, absolutely not. A right period of time should not exist only for one religion. It is something which is to be explored within yourself as a human being, because it's more spiritual than religious. So it is meant for everybody and we plan to have tie ups with religious organizations of different religions.

52:41

Suveett

Yeah, but because it's a very big vision and it'll take a lot of time, money, effort, hustle, sweat, tears, I don't know what all to develop this. So a lot of capital. So I think we're going to go step by step. Initially, we will launch it in some of the countries where we see that people are more religious minded or more spiritual as per se than the countries that people are not so spiritual. But eventually we'll catch up to everybody else. Yeah, that's the goal.

53:05

Nadja

So adding on to this very interesting question from Mike. Thank you. What do you imagine an NFT for atheists would be like?

53:17

Suveett

NFT for atheists? I don't know, a proof of no god concept. If you have a proof that no god exists, then you can be claiming that NFT, otherwise that NFT has to be I don't know, then you get the NFT for free, otherwise you have to purchase it. But of course, NFTs can be created on anything else. Anything and everything, I guess. So you could have a no god or a D god, NFT as you have on the Solana blockchain, but you could have NFTs for so many things, but maybe a proof of scientifically falsifying other people's beliefs and saying that there is no God could be a free NFT claimer for you. I don't know. This is just like a suggestion.

53:57

Nadja

Thank you, Mike, for that question. Next one. Do you think some people will be offended by turning religions into commodities?

54:08

Suveett

Not really. Because as I said, our focus is not on religion. I've in fact specified if you were in the first few minutes of this Twitter space, I categorically said that this is not about religion, this is more about spirituality. And the difference between religion and spirituality is that in religion you believe in something because somebody else told you to believe in it. Because let's say you were a young child and your mother told you're a Christian and you should believe in Jesus Christ. But as a spiritual being, you believe or you don't believe, it doesn't matter. It's what you explore from within is what matters. And this is what spirituality is all about. Of course, to give that exploration of something, if were to create an image of something in which you can explore that's a pictorial description of how humans have always learned and evolved over times.

54:56

Suveett

If I were to tell you there is nothing but a lake and that lake itself is you and you are that lake, you might not understand me, you will say, what the f you are talking about Suveett. But if I were to just pick a pictorial description of some God, which then you want to believe or you don't want to believe and you want to explore further, at least you're able to do it in a better way, in my opinion, because humans are more pictorially aligned. And how do I say that's how our cognitive brains work. So that's my opinion. But eventually, as I said, it's not only about religion and going to that religious place and doing the daily course and everything. It's about exploring yourself. Like meditation itself is a big part of spirituality if you're just able to meditate. And meditation, in my opinion, is nothing but actually being able to grasp the ability of not focusing on anything that you think for that particular 15 minutes.

55:47

Suveett

And that true. Meditation is for me, if you can just keep your mind blank because our human brain is thinking like I don't know how many thoughts per second, I think it's millions of in the subconscious plus subconscious mind together. But eventually, if you're able to keep your mind blank, that itself is a big spirituality, in my opinion, because that meditative state is your spiritual state. So this concept has a lot of things to take from a lot of things in general about life not really necessarily related to religion. Like yoga is nothing but a union of the mind and body. If somebody likes yoga, you can do. Yoga. If you're really good at it, you can actually earn money with it. Just because you're practicing yoga and you're putting a video every day, you're earning some tokens about it. So it's again game. Theoretically, expanding people's interests, areas and their professional skills into money is what the goal of Satyug is all about, not necessarily about religion.

56:39

Nadja

Thank you so much for clearing that up. Yeah, I think not everyone is here from the beginning of the space. So thank you so much for recapping your earlier thoughts and comments. I'm going to try and add at least one more question. Post COVID, even churches have online mass. Do you believe this can also happen in the Metaverse so people can feel connected without physically stepping out of their homes?

57:06

Suveett

Honestly, I'm not a big fan of the masks. Absolutely. I've never been, I've been absolutely against lockdowns from the day one because they've actually it's shown over a period of time that we've not been able to really stop COVID. And any which way is what we are fearing that 600 million people are going to die in the beginning of COVID it actually turned out to be hoax, but not to take COVID non seriously. That's not the goal. But the idea is that masks have not been able to do anything. So probably we'll not have anything related to masks in the Metaverse. I'm sorry, I'm not a fan of the masks.

57:41

Nadja

So yeah, good to know that at least in the Metaverse we are safe from it. So with that, unfortunately, as you said, you're being Sanskrit for a period of time. We've come to the end of our period of time together. So, Suveett, thank you so much for sharing with us, I think, a very unique perspective and insight on the future of NFTs and also how abstract and organized belief systems such as spirituality is able to find a place in this brave new world of web three. So where can our listeners go to stay in touch with what you're building?

58:15

Suveett

So if you can, I mean, I would love to build a community. In fact, this is my only ask that because this is going to be a pretty huge project to build and I'm actually bootstrapping it. Firstly, you can go and follow Satyug life. We'll try to keep you posted with the developments. It's Sat. Y-U-G-L-I-F-E. Also, there are other handles, but at the moment, we only going to be active on Satyug life. And also if you can stay in touch with me. I'm Suveett underscore crypto. Secondly, if you are amongst the audience and you would like to collaborate because I'm willing to collaborate or partner or pay, depending upon how this relationship works out. But I'm looking at people who are very good at unreal engine development, who are sculptors and character modelers and sound engineers because that's one area where we are little lacking at this moment.

59:09

Suveett

We're also looking at teams who can actually build up a community or create some Telegram channels and be the admin or discord server admins. We're looking at these kind of people to collaborate or to partner or maybe on a paid partnership. If you are amongst the audience, please reach out to me. My DMs are always open. We'd love to take this discussion forward.

59:28

Nadja

Awesome. It sounds like there are a lot of opportunities working with Suveett and with Satyug. So to the audience, thank you so much for taking the time to share the space with us today. Think in web3, there is for very good reason this idea that community is God and we feel very honored AdLunam to be able to serve you these inside dishes every week on our different shows. So I will catch you again next week for another episode of The Future of NFTs, brought to you by AdLunam. Cheers guys and Suveett, thank you so much. Was just an absolute pleasure talking to you today and we will definitely be keeping an eye out on what's next for Satyug and what's next for the world of yoga and meditation practitioners who are going to be able to start monetizing these things that they love and are good at.

Suveett

Thank you so much. I really appreciated your invitation and my time here. Thank you so much.

Nadja

Awesome. Cheers guys. Have a lovely morning, afternoon, evening, wherever you are in the world. We'll see you next week. Cheers.