In this #DivIC podcast episode, we sit down with Will Corkin, the Co-Founder of SOMA.finance & Mantra, to explore the dynamic realm where traditional finance meets decentralized finance. Join us as we unravel the intricacies of the financial landscape, delving into the convergence of these two worlds. Corkin shares invaluable insights into the future of finance, discussing the synergy between established financial systems and the innovative potential of decentralized technologies. Discover the transformative power of bridging traditional and decentralized finance, as Corkin sheds light on the trends, challenges, and exciting possibilities in this rapidly evolving space. Whether you’re a seasoned investor or a curious listener, this episode offers a compelling glimpse into the future of global finance. Tune in to gain a deeper understanding of how these converging forces are shaping the financial world of tomorrow.
Transcript
SOMA.Finance & MANTRA - The Convergence of traditional and Decentralized Finance
Participants:
• JP (CMO of AdLunam)
• Will Corkin, the Co-Founder of SOMA.Finance & Mantra)
JP
Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to this episode of Diving into Crypto. This is JP from AdLunam Inc. bringing you everything about web3. This show is coming to you live from the AdLunam studios. Who is AdLunam? AdLunam is the all in one Web3 investment ecosystem empowering early stage startups. From tokenomics to community growth, VC funding to IDO launches, and our unique Engage to Earn platform, we transform the way investors experience the world of Web3 investing and dynamic NFTs. And through our monthly Web3 pitch arena. Watch out for that. We are bridging the gap between innovative startups and venture capital. This show, ladies and gentlemen, is meant for you to learn a little about the movers, the shakers, the candlestick watchers all the leaders of the industry sharing their insights, their journeys and their strategies. Coming to you live from the AdLunam studio.
JP
Before we invite our guests to come on, I'd just like to remind you in case we get cut off, please come back to AdLunam Inc. And you will find a link that will lead you back into the show. If you have any questions, we'll open up the room towards the end of the show for question and answers, but if you have one in between, please feel free to tweet them into us or to the speaker and we'll get them answered for you. Views expressed on this program belong to that of the speaker and are meant for educational purposes only. Do not confuse them to be financial advice. Right. That being said, it is an absolute treat to have this gentleman on the show today. I'm going to let him introduce himself, but it would be remiss if I didn't tell you that Will Corkin, who is in the show today representing Soma Finance and Mantra.
JP
He's a blockchain and fintech founder, a speaker and investor both in crypto and tokenized securities markets. He co-founded Mantra and Soma Finance as well as a number of other companies in the Web3 space, and he has helped shape licensing and regulation for the digital asset space in the US. And abroad. This is absolutely phenomenal. Will, an absolute pleasure to have you on the show. Welcome.
Will
Thank you so much and really appreciate that intro. But it sounds like from the intro for AdLunam, there's a lot of amazing stuff that you guys are doing that would love to pass this show, participate more, and a lot of really good things around Web3.
JP
Happy to do that. Pick up that conversation as well. So, Will, tell us a little about you and what got you into the Web3 space.
Will
and crypto space since around:Will
At night and do online courses, read any materials we could find, host meetups as it was a very community driven ecosystem in Shanghai at the time around the web3 space. Well, back then, not Web3, I guess, but around the crypto and blockchain space, let's say, and we would do this for probably around six to eight months and then finally we realized that we really knew what we were talking about and we really saw the vision and beauty of what blockchain as a technology could do. Anything from the financial market to supply chain to data storage, all of this. And we pretty much looked at each other and said, this is a lot more interesting and this is the future. So we both quit our day jobs and went full time into crypto. So that was kind of the initial entrance into the Web3 space.
JP
That's awesome. Will, go ahead.
Will
ation crypto exchange back in:Will
ities, which remember back in:Will
up, it really started back in:Will
So actually back in:Will
But were able to raise a couple million dollars and issue the first, if not one of the first security tokens in the US.
JP
I want to dive a bit more into that story, but especially what that is. And it's unique because you also have the NBA listed as an investor in projects. But before that, Will, I want to go back to you and your story. There has to have been a moment at which you thought, hey, here's the switch, it's on, and web3 is the space to be for me. What was that moment like for you? What was that story?
Will
oing on and of course back in:Will
Same thing with aiding for different initiatives and things like the Red Cross where there's a lot of still problems within that space that there's no visibility into, you make a donation to a fund, where is that actually going? A lot of the times, unfortunately, there are ones that end up going to a lot of the executives on private planes, all this kind of stuff. And then realizing that through blockchain and through having full transparency and this ledger that anyone can see, you can get rid of those problems and you can actually, at the base of it, give back to the people that actually need these different products. And that flows into the kind of the ethos of DeFi too, with things like banking, the unbanked being able to actually offer financial products to people around the world that might not have access to an actual bank or an ATM.
Will
out initially, I think around:JP
Awesome. I mean, it's fantastic when you share that precise moment or the point at which the penny drops and you realize that this is the space that you can make a difference. And then there's so many applications in this particular industry that lead to unique stories, unique journeys and it may have started out from something that you thought of, but evolving into something that cultivates more into a market need. Was that something similar for you and the team?
Will
Yeah, absolutely. I think going into it, we didn't necessarily know what SOMA was going to be or what maybe Mantra was going to be when we started. But with a lot of these products, and especially when you build anything that's a B2C platform, at the end of the day you're building products for your community, for your users. So it's a lot of trial and error and being able to actually find what the right product market fit is. That's going to be interesting for people that's solving a pain point for them. And I think that's one of the best things of building within the web3, blockchain, crypto space is just the lifecycle of the feedback loop is instant. Having these telegram groups, you launch something and there's problems or you do something right, you do something wrong, you hear it instantly, which in many other industries you have to focus groups and a b testing and all this.
Will
Whereas for better or worse, having that constant feedback loop and these communities that can be very vocal. It does help to expedite the process of building proper products for the people using them.
JP
Indeed will, and I agree with you because one of the requirements in most nascent industries is agility, right. Your sense and your ability to be able to pivot very quickly to what's a changing trend which is going to be more sustainable over the long term. Often with certain companies, with certain groups, I think that idea kind of gets lost and the ability to be agile and to be able to pivot quickly with feedback coming in at the speed as it is really acts as a benefit for you.
Will
100%. And I think that's a big piece of builders in the space is they understand that if they want to do something right in terms of bringing a right product to market, they need to be able to pivot and move quickly and make adjustments. Which is a great thing to see because like you said, there are a lot of companies that do just get bogged down because maybe it's head down building without really understanding. Are we actually building the right thing and will people use.
JP
I want to dial back a little, too, and I'm not losing track of the NBA story.
Will
I'm going to keep that a bit of a dialogue on that one.
JP
Looking forward to it. But I want to come back a little to I think everybody understands the word Mantra. It's popular, easily understandable, multiple cultures, can pick up on it. But SOMA what's the story behind that name?
Will
Yeah, so the name really ties in also with what we were doing at Mantra. So SOMA is actually the Hindu goddess of the Moon, which was kind of an obvious win with being in the Web3 and crypto space.
JP
Totally get it now. Totally get it. That's awesome. And for us, and I like that, I can relate to that too, because AdLunam is to the moon in Latin.
Will
Amazing. I love it.
JP
Okay. Super. All right, so as we said, time for the NBA story. How did that work out? Tell us the juicy bets.
Will
down with COVID beginning of:Will
hat was launched in August of:Will
art of the big DeFi summer of:JP
Okay, interesting. Like I said, I've noticed also that the MBA was listed as an investor into some projects, which I found quite interesting. Was that also something that assisted this particular situation.
Will
We haven't received any funding from the MBA. Of course. They were a part of the first deal that we did with Spencer, making sure that they were comfortable with what we were doing. I do see that they have invested in some companies and like I think many other big corporations or sports brands around the world, they're really starting to take a proper look into web3 and having things like loyalty, tokens and NFTs and seeing how to properly integrate it into their communities and into their teams, which I think is great. So we look forward to hopefully working with them again in the future, but nothing just yet.
JP
Okay, fair enough. Fine. I want to pivot a little to some of the work that you guys are doing. And needless to say, you did see the DeFi boom in itself. You did see how things were progressing in that space. Good move to jump right into it. But of course, building a brand from the bottom up is difficult because if I'm not mistaken, there are a lot of players in the space. Right? What do you think makes projects stand out in DeFi from a consumer level?
Will
tra DAO launched in August of:Will
And I think this is what really drives different projects and separates them apart because if you have a project that's just as anonymous PFPs, then how do you really connect with who's ultimately building products for where you're putting your money? So we from day one have put our picture on the team page, our LinkedIn, our everything we've doxxed ourselves from day one because we're here to build something for you and we're not trying to hide it right.
JP
I think that you've hit on a very interesting point that does build a lot of trust, especially with the community, when they know the people who are actually involved or feel in some way more trusting of the people involved, especially when it comes to finance. The quantum of undoxxed founders or team leaders or players in the space, really sends up a lot of people's antenna, no matter how great they say that their products are. I'm glad that you guys have decided to be at the forefront of that. That being said though, the market is of course a brilliant teacher and in many ways it is very objective. At the same time, what are some of the cues that you're picking up? Will, you and your team are picking up from the market, especially where this is concerned? Are you seeing a lot more people getting into the DeFi space, looking at a way to save themselves from the volatility or what's your reading?
Will
So I think there's a few pieces to that obviously after a lot of the, let's call them black swan events of last year. So after Luna Terra collapse, three Arrows capital, FTX, of course it hurt a lot of people. There were pretty significant ripple effects that went really across the entire space and it's hard to find someone that was within kind of the DeFi or just general blockchain crypto world that wasn't affected. So for now, I think a lot of people did lose a lot of money so it's being a lot more careful in terms of what they're putting into. I think it was a big learning curve for people that if it sounds too good to be true, if it's a 10,000% interest or staking pool, it's probably not legitimate and you should probably raise a red flag on that and just trying to be a bit smarter and actually do proper due diligence.
Will
e big winners of this year of:Will
And that's ultimately also what Soma Finance is doing is we will end up tokenizing Treasuries sometime down the line. But what we're doing is we're using DeFi and we're using blockchain to be able to allow people to access things like public equities, but on chain things like Treasuries, products that are secure, safe, and it's not the kind of thing that it's going to be rugged, let's say, and getting into it that way. While of course the market turns around and I'm sure during the next bull run you will still have your 100 Xers that come about, but probably not as prolific as it was a couple of years ago.
JP
Yeah, exactly. I mean, any smart investor has to balance out their risk, right? You don't want to throw all your eggs in one basket. The smart investors, the ones that have survived these cycles, are always the one that have had a very balanced portfolio in terms of where do you keep a percentage of your money in secure but low investment yields. Decide how much you want to put into the more higher risk investments. It's good financial advice across the board, right? I suppose more people would have been secure had that been done. But did you see some of that happening or is that a trend that's happening now?
Will
Of course not to play that, we're sightseers, but we did see a lot of the problems that were plaguing the space. A lot of these different companies that came out of the gate and said that they're the antithesis and taking down the banks while acting like they were similarly structured to a bank and just as secure when in reality they had no licenses, they weren't regulated, they had no insurance, and people trusted them. So it's using marketing to ultimately convince and deceive people into putting money. So look at something like Celsius. Celsius's big thing was don't trust your bank, but instead deposit this money in our platform which was custodial, so they were holding it all for you and we'll go reinvest that and obviously in very risky and maybe not real yields. So I think also one of the big things was people really realizing the importance of self custody and having noncustodial platforms where at any time maybe you're interacting with a smart contract, but you still have access to your assets at all time if you want to remove them.
Will
Instead of just kind of blindly trusting an exchange that seems legitimate or a platform that seems like it has the same look and feel as a bank. And that's been a tough part. It's just companies and bad actors using marketing and kind of using similar language to deceive and really make it seem like they're actually legitimate and licensed and everything they're doing is by the book, when you really just kind of have to look behind the curtain and realize that's not the case. And hopefully people are doing a little bit more due diligence and realizing that. And ultimately, again, if they're looking to put money in, maybe checking a bit more and talking with the team and maybe scrolling to the bottom of the page where it normally says what licensing they have or who they work with to see if it's something actually legit.
JP
Yeah, indeed. There's so many examples of just a smoke and mirror effect and stuff that looks shiny, but it's not. It's really just fool's gold. But hey, that's exactly why the markets are so objective. You learn so much and sometimes those lessons are expensive. No doubt. All right.
Will
Unfortunately, yes.
JP
Indeed. I'm curious to know you have the ability to give us a very unique perspective, having lived in the world's two largest economies.
Will
Right.
JP
Do you see a lot of difference in both these economies, the US. And of course, China when it comes to crypto, what's happening on the ground? I mean, we can read the reports, but it's really very different when you have a perspective from the ground up. What is it like? What is the contrast like?
Will
Yeah. So I think both in China and the US. They've had trouble in terms of voicing or Structuring, how they really want to approach crypto. China's been pretty advocate on being non crypto for quite some time. And the US. Obviously, within the media, kind of has a back and forth and not giving clear answers, which obviously for us, working closely with the US regulators and kind of through the licensure that we have, we know that there is a path forward that we are taking. But in terms of being on the ground, I think both places have a lot of really ambitious, really hungry and really devoted entrepreneurs that are coming into the space and looking to build and looking to create great products and great companies that can benefit a lot of the different pieces around, whether it's Web3 or DeFi or gaming or whatever.
Will
tywide event. There was Token:Will
But until I think some of the guidelines and regulations play out within China, most of that won't be allowed in there. And within the US. You'll have to work with a licensed individual. And these assets are going to end up being securities. But that's means securities. It's not like that's a bad thing. It just means that you actually have some sort of backing to what you're buying into and you can have traditional products and things like dividends or royalties and actually things that make it really interesting for these token or NFT holders. So it's just a matter of you having to navigate. And obviously, there are a few different types of people. Ones that just kind of go for it, build fast, break things, ask forgiveness if they need to, and then ones that actually look into the laws and get approval before launching. And in terms of that side, that's what Soma has done from the start.
Will
And I think that's how we've actually received the licensure that we have with the regulators in the you know, we didn't launch anything and we won't launch anything until we have kind of the full approval and check off by the US. Regulators until they're comfortable with what we're launching. Because at the end of the day, we're building this. And we want to be building this hand in hand with them as well. Because we see this as being the future of the financial markets across the board. So obviously, to make that happen, you need both sides of it. You need the diligent builders and the people that are creating a lot of these amazing pieces of technology as well as the traditional side, the institutions and regulators.
JP
Right. So, Will, out of curiosity, I know that there's a lot of red tape that you've got to jump through. Would it be easier to build outside the US. Or have your licenses from outside the US. Is there an advantage or I'm going to put my neck out here.
Will
Okay.
JP
Are you just a patriot?
Will
Yeah. No, that's a great question. And I think there's been a lot of bad press with some of the things that a few of the execs at like Ripple and different places have said in terms know, don't build in the not, you know, a beneficial place for entrepreneurs. And I don't also think that's the case either. The US. Is still one of the biggest Economies, and at the end of The Day, a Lot Of The regulation and A Lot of the compliance that's in place was developed to protect Retail Investors, to protect against the Rugs and Scams which are rampant through our space, as the last two years alone have shown. So yes, it is. One of my co-founders, Bill in the US. He says something that people are confusing difficult with impossible. So it's not impossible, it's just it might be a little bit more difficult.
Will
You can issue a token compliantly in the US to US retail people or accredited institutions, but instead of making a token with a smart contract in an afternoon and launching it the next day, yes, you have to go through a few more steps. You need to go through a private placement and set up a company and put together a couple of different issuance forms. But at the end of the day, that also protects against scammers, because if you're a scammer, you're not going to actually go and give your identity and open up a company and put this all together. So there are, again, the pros and cons. So for some companies, if the US. Isn't a market that they need touch and they're just focused on Southeast Asia or Latin America or, you know, Europe or Africa or wherever, then obviously there's maybe no need to build kind of within the confines around the kind of regulatory framework of the US.
Will
Or other countries. But it's really a project to project basis and saying that of course, the US kind of takes the spotlight for a lot of it. But every other country around the world also has their own regulations. Some are more advanced than others. Some utility tokens are an actual thing and some it's only security tokens. And utility tokens don't really exist. In the EU, you have the MiCA framework that's just coming into existence here in Hong Kong, The SFC released their virtual Asset trading platform licenses so that exchanges can allow retail traders. MAS down in Singapore had their Sandbox. VAR in Dubai is creating a MVP program, which is actually something that on the Mantra side is a part of. So it's not like it's just the US that has these different regulatory frameworks and guidelines. It's most.
JP
You know, in many ways I do see that the US. Is leading the way for the rest of the world to take a cue. Right. And no doubt it's a huge responsibility. There's a lot of considerations. But I'm glad that you painted that picture about what it's like to have that done in the US. Where there's a lot of protection for the retail consumer. And I think that's a point that's often ignored. But also what your co-founder Bill had said in terms of you're confusing difficult with impossible and difficulties is just something you can overcome.
Will
offering with Spencer back in:Will
Of course, global people can also participate, but this is the first time that historically it's always been, you can participate in this ICO if you're not from the US. So we're swimming upstream and really going headfirst to show people that we're not going to leave out US retail people, we're not going to leave out the US. There's a way to actually do this compliantly and legally, and we'll show that this is the way, and then hopefully from there people go, okay, this makes total sense. Why don't we do it like this? So that instead of having to jump through hoops and think of creative ways that their Token isn't a security and is a utility Token, just call a spade and issue it as a security and it opens up the doors for a lot more opportunities, things like dividends and royalties and IP rights and ownership.
Will
It makes a lot of the Tokenomics and what the Token actually does within a project and ecosystem and community a lot more interesting in my perspective.
JP
Indeed. Actually, it leads me to two points that I want to ask. I'll ask the one that doesn't require a lot of thought. Do you see a lot of activity coming out from Latin America? And I'll explain why I'm saying this right. Obviously the Meta region when we're talking about Dubai, and then now of course, Saudi Arabia going all out in terms of what they want to do in the space, you can see that there's a ton of activity that's coming out of there. But is Latin America showing the kind of promise that we think it does? What are your thoughts?
Will
Absolutely. I mean, we are definitely very bullish on the Latin American market. So similar to what I said, so mantra through kind of one of the companies Mantra Finance. We are actually in the program to receive one of the MVP licenses from VARA in Dubai. But while we're actually doing this, we've talked with a number of regulators around the, you know, us being licensed by FINRA and overseen by the SEC. That helps to start the conversation. We've actually had preliminary conversations with regulators down in Brazil and Mexico and really looking at the markets down there, because these places are really perfectly ripe for a lot of the DeFi products and allowing people again to access investing in a tokenized treasury or getting access to US public equities, which in the US is an easy thing to access. But for people around the world, it's not that easy to go buy Tesla share or an Apple share similar to Southeast Asia.
Will
We think it's been pretty bullish and into the crypto space since the beginning. But I think Latin America is really one of the kind of the sleeping giants in terms of a lot of the countries down there that will really benefit from different DeFi and tokenized financial products coming into those markets.
JP
Yeah, I'm seeing some of these signals coming from, of course, El Salvador and what's happening in the retail markets with Argentina too. So it does look promising. And thank you for sharing those insights. Going to keep an eye on that as well, along with some of the other spaces. So thank you for sharing that will.
Will
Yeah, absolutely. And we know in Brazil they're coming out with some sort of initial frameworks, I believe, by the end of this year, that will have a couple firms grandfathered in going into next year. So there is a lot of movements going on. I think some of it is just kind of being worked on quietly as they're getting ready to roll out. So it is good to see.
JP
Well, interesting, of course, interesting times ahead. I'm going to look forward to that too, because that is, of course, a massive market between Brazil, of course, it's one of the brick nations, right. So needless to say, it's going to have a lot of promise.
Will
Exactly.
JP
Yeah. Super. Okay, let's pivot to one of the other aspects. When it comes to, of course, when it comes to DeFi, being able to work with projects and initiatives that you see as valuable, what are some of these projects? What is your thought process about some of the projects that are going to really make something big in the space that you're either working with or in some way, shape or form you have on your radar?
Will
Yeah, so I think there's a lot of people building amazing things. I think over the last year or two, there's been a number of different areas that have been super unique and really pivotal moments in terms of bringing new financial instruments or ways of earning money to different communities and different people. Last year was a lot of the big kind of play to earn or walk to earn or any of these kind of two earned things, which again, kind of creating incentivizing people for participating, whether it was within a game or within activities or within a community. So I think a lot of the different games and different projects doing that is very interesting. And that all kind of comes down to how you engage and draw interest with a group of people in a community. So gaming has always kind of been one of the big narratives within the space.
Will
I think the gaming market and the creator market are going to be probably some of the main drivers in getting us the next, let's say, billion people into the space. Being able to have, let's say, for recording artists or sports teams or creators on TikTok or things like this. Being able for them to have NFTs or Tokens within their ecosystem, that they can share their royalties with, that they can share their earnings, that they can reward people for being kind of more active within the community. I think that's really what's interesting for people and that's what's going to get them over the line. People from Web2 to figure out how to get into Web3, how do we get a noncustodial MetaMask wallet, how do we set this off, all this kind of stuff. So I think that's very bullish on all of those.
Will
And that's know, obviously when a Token or an NFT gives off a royalty or a dividend or rights, that's a know, especially in the, you know, really looking forward to working with more and more companies and communities to have them actually do things the right way and come through. Soma and let us issue that NFT or that Token as a private placement to your retail fans and that way you don't have to worry about regulators kind of coming down on you. I think the other kind of big next step, and this is kind of more on the tech side is with things like Social Logins or Web3Auth technology to make it a bit more seamless in terms of people getting into Web3, getting into the space is a bit daunting. Having a wallet with a public key, a private key, having an extension on your browser and accessing these different platforms, connecting wallets, it is a lot for a lot of people.
Will
So I think the next step is having all these great different DeFi projects and great platforms, but then bringing kind of a bit more of a friendly Web2 UI into it. We jokingly say the DeFi Mullet. So Web2 in the front, web3 in the back. But I think that's what's really going to get people to come over is if you come in. And at the end of the day, yes, it's powered by blockchain. Yes, it's tokens. But for all you need to worry about is it's making a transaction or buying something or participating within this game, you shouldn't have to worry about what chain it's on or what sort of ZK roll up or anything like this. It should just be what's powering at your fingertips.
JP
Yeah, indeed. This is of course a very exciting space and it is a huge topic. There's a lot of movement that's happening, especially the DID spaces. You're seeing investments that are flowing in, you're seeing innovations that are coming up there and in so many ways it's sort of hitting the balance between the Privacy aspect of most retail investors and the fact that they want to maintain their own private data in the best possible way.
Will
Yes, so I think there's two sides to that. Having anonymity and being compliant is pretty much impossible because in order to be compliant you need to do some level of KYC, know your customer so similar to opening up a bank account or opening up just an account anywhere, you need to give your name, your address, maybe your passport or ID. But I think a big difference and this is something with kind of the DID space and even what we're doing at Soma in terms of our compliance module and onboarding, yes, you do have to give that information. But none of that is stored on chain. None of that is being sold or distributed anywhere outside of pretty much within our server blades. It's being pretty much in a cold vault, but that's it. So for Soma for instance, all we do is when you go through the onboarding process, you also put the wallet address that you want associated with that and that's the only thing that gets mapped on chain that then gets permissions to interact within all the different products on the platform.
Will
All of your actual personal information is completely kept off chain and up to every level standards of security pretty much across the board. And then that's what the DID aspects kind of take that into the next level in terms of similar thing it would be connected to that wallet. You Would do your KYC again all Of that would be left off chain but then you Would be issued this NFT or this asset that Shows that it's been Approved by a Compliance officer that you Are compliant and You're a Real person. And then that doesn't hold some of the vid projects, it does hold your data, but with other ones maybe it wouldn't. And you just have kind of a passportable community that they all know that if one of them did the compliance check to the standard that it needs to be upheld with and that's actually something with Mantra.
Will
We're actually building a Cosmos Tendermint and EVM compatible chain right now called Mantra chain but it's a bit of a working title but that will it's more of kind of a Reg tech real world asset tokenization chain that will have built in did modules so perfectly for this. So you can come on and you can have everything from your guard or compliance system that you can plug in. So being able to check and approve people and then creating a DID and then being able to access different financial products on chain. So I think it's still some time away just as the space. But I think it's great that this is where everything's going and kind of utilizing the tech to make it seamless for people to be able to be compliant but also then be able to kind of interact with all the different DeFi products easily across the board without having to go through it multiple times.
JP
Yeah, indeed. It certainly is a pain point and especially when you want to have the ease of access across multiple platforms because you deserve the choice. Right? Yeah. And then having to go through the same series of steps again and again, it does put a damper on or your desire to be able to access as many as you'd like to. So, yeah, it's going to be, again, interesting times ahead. Well, that being said, what's your vision when it comes to the DeFi space, say five years from now? What do you see us doing? Are we going to be running around with credit cards that you can use for use your crypto or do everything your entire life is on chain in some way, shape or form? With respect to finance.
Will
I think it's very difficult to give a five years from time with how quickly the space moves and just with the understanding that DeFi alone is maybe three years old. But looking at that scenario, we think that what we're really looking at. Compliant DeFi and regulated DeFi is going to be the standard. Obviously there's still going to be, let's say, 5% or 10% of the ecosystem that is completely anonymous on its own, but that's fine, that’s the
JP
The state of affairs as things are today.
Will
Exactly. You know, realistically, it's going to know you have to KYC in order to access. Most of the products are licensed and a lot of these companies are going to be in places like the US. Or Europe or Asia or Latin America where there still are regulations and there are ways of doing business. So you will have some sort of KYC AML checks around it, but then it's going to be a lot more of a fusion with the traditional financial world and the decentralized financial world. So what we're just starting to do now in terms of tokenizing US public equities and what people are doing this year in terms of tokenizing treasuries, that's really just the tip of the iceberg. So eventually we're starting with a handful of US public equities and that'll grow, but eventually being able to have a marketplace and have a peer to peer AMM where you can trade US public equities against Hong Kong public equities or London public equities against different currency pairs, access different treasury bills from different countries.
Will
So really having a borderless financial product ecosystem that again, once you KYC, you can access it and you'll be able to easily participate. It's all fractionalized. So it's not like you need to have $1,000 or $100 within a bank account to buy the specific product. You'll be able to participate with any different asset, any different product around the world and at the end of the day benefit from that. So obviously then, yes, credit cards will come into play and there'll be more kind of power to the user because you'll be able to tap into things like bonds and treasuries and different yield sources so that those credit cards can actually give back healthy percentages and different pieces. So it will be I think we'll see a lot more of an integrated ecosystem across the traditional world and DeFi world, but that's definitely going to take time.
Will
So that's maybe on the five year horizon.
JP
Well, if that's the future that we're going to wake up to, even five years or even ten years from now, what you've just told me sounds like everybody will have the ability to invest the same way that the one percenters are able to invest in today. And that is a fantastic opportunity.
Will
And that's what we're all shooting for, and that's what we're all really trying to build towards a common goal. And I think it's getting there. A lot of people will go kicking and screaming to be brought into the regulated space and have to comply, but that is going to open up a lot of doors so that you can do exactly that. Everyone has the same opportunities to access different financial products or assets or opportunities just like their peer in a different country.
JP
Wow, that would be interesting indeed. Okay. But that being said, we come to the end of the show and I've got one last question for you, but I'll also take one that's coming from the audience. I'm seeing quite a few, is about 14 questions, but I just have time to pick one right. So let's get to this one first. Okay. What's your personal philosophy and what is it that keeps you going?
Will
Well. That’s a great question. So I think the personal philosophy and what keeps me going through the bears and the bull markets does come down to what I was saying is kind of the backbone of what we're building, and that's the community and the people that we're building this for. So I truly believe the products we're building are very much so revolutionary and what going to be kind of the driving force behind bringing the traditional financial world and decentralized financial world together. But at the end of the day, it's building it for the different people and the different community members that we have around the world that can be able to access these. So I think that's really a driving force on being able to launch a product where we can see someone in the Philippines or Argentina or Nigeria be able to buy a US public equity as easily as someone within the US.
Will
Or be able to have some of their savings within a treasury. So I think that seeing that vision through and showing people that there is a compliant way for this industry to move forward is what really drives me forward and gets me excited waking up and working every day, which is really every day. Because when you're a founder and builder within this space, there's very little time to shut off.
::JP
Yeah, indeed. Thank you for sharing that, Will. Truly and more power to you and to the teams both at Soma and Mantra to be able to do this. So the question that I've selected, which is coming from the audience, most of these questions that have come up have been answered, but this one's a bit of a pivot. This one's from Taku, Handle 66KYR, he says, with growing interest in sustainability and energy efficiency, how does the DeFi industry address environmental concerns? He asked what's your stance on it? But I'm just going to ask you what's your take on that? Do you see more of that happening in the DeFi space or with the tech in the DeFi space?
::Will
So definitely see a lot of it happening really across the board. I think renewable energy and being carbon neutral, these sort of initiatives have at last and finally started to become kind of a main focal point across industries, not just DeFi and going into the institutions and other industries. And we actually within the same office, we work with one of the carbon neutral carbon credits startup within the space as well. That's been very interesting seeing as they grow. But I think within DeFi, a lot of the kind of the pain points that people were drawing on to with things like mining and energy consumption, there was some legitimacy to them. Having said that, I think something like 70 or 80% of all the energy that's used into either mining or a lot of the kind of the energy consumption within the space is done from renewable sources, which is really great.
::Will
But I think what DeFi and kind of the tokenization aspect is actually going to make it even more accessible for companies to be sustainable and socially conscious. So in Hong Kong, I believe Hong Kong was the first country a couple of months ago to actually issue a tokenized green bond. So this was definitely a first. And them really making a stance that they're putting sustainability and putting renewable energy kind of at the forefront. So it's still going to be some time until we see a lot of these products, maybe within kind of the everyday DeFi, but having things like carbon credits and carbon offsets being traded on DEXes or being on balance sheets of companies or being part of an investment portfolio is absolutely going to be something very common in the future. And a lot of it's going to be made a bit more accessible and a bit more easy for companies to follow and handle via tokenization and blockchain.
::JP
Awesome. Well, thank you for that answer, Will and Taku, I hope that does answer your question. It's a good one, something to look forward. You know what you've said, Will, I think I should make another trip back to Hong Kong. There seems to be a lot of exciting stuff happening in that space.
::Will
You're always welcome to come by the office and would love to have you here.
::JP
Thank you for that, Will. Well, Will, once again, thank you so much for accepting an invitation to be on the show. More power to you and the team once again at Soma Finance and Know, look forward to continuing the conversation with you off the show. Once again, thank you for being here.
::Will
Absolutely. Yeah. No, thank you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure. And thank you for everyone that tuned in. For anyone out there, please do follow our socials or join our telegram. If I didn't manage to answer your question, I think they're in the comments, so I'll try to get around to them, but if not, shoot me a DM message on Telegram. We're happy to get those answered and hopefully welcome you into the ecosystem. We have a lot of really exciting things coming up within the Soma Finance journey, starting with the token sale happening kind of on the horizon, as well as a number of things within Mantra. So really excited to share more as we continue to grow. And I'm always here if there are more questions.
::JP
Sure. Will, where should people reach out to you? What's the best channel that they can.
::Will
Either here on Twitter or on Telegram? Pretty easy. My handle on both is Will_Corkin. Or you can go to the Soma Finance official Telegram Group and just find my name. Know, you know, be careful on Telegram. There are some fake scam accounts of myself. You know, probably better to do it that way, but really LinkedIn or, you know, whatever your method of Know. Happy to get around to answer them. Know hopefully welcome you as community members into Soma and Mantra.
::JP
Fingers crossed. Well, ladies and gentlemen, you've heard it here. You know exactly how to reach Will and this team both at Soma Finance and Mantra. Thank you once again, ladies and gentlemen, for tuning in. Welcome back. Next week at the same time for a new episode of Diving into Crypto. A quick announcement. Our co-founders will be speaking at the Istanbullish conference in Turkey on the 30 September, followed by the ABC conference in Dubai 7th to 8th, as well as in Karachi. That's going to happen next month, so stay tuned to AdLunam Inc. For more updates and where you can meet our team. Once again, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for tuning into the show. This is JP from AdLunam Inc. bringing you everything about web3. Cheers.
