With NFTs being used for governance in DAO’s, will they change the way DAO’s operate and are structured? This DAO unlocks a new dimension for NFT utility with a breakdown to micro team levels while still keeping to One Person One Vote and balancing the DAO as a whole.
In conversation with Rishav B and Pranav Y from Station X turning a spotlight on how NFTs can be central to the functioning of a DAO.
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Transcript
NFTs for Governance -Rishav Bajoria and Pranav Yerabati Co-founder at StationX
Participants:
• JP (CMO of AdLunam)
• Rishav Bajoria (Co-founder & CEO at StationX)
• Pranav Yerabati(Co-founder at StationX)
JP
Okay, ladies and gentlemen, we've seen to have a bit of a technical issue, trying to get our regular slated host on the show today. So this is your host, JP from AdLunam, Inc. Today speaking to you about NFTs. And on the show today, we have Rishav and Pranav, who are, of course, the co-founders, I believe, of StationX. We're going to dive right into that. We're going to dive into the minds behind this particular utility of NFTs because that's what they're going to bring out where it comes to NFTs for governance as we had decided to start. So give me a reaction. Ladies and gentlemen, if you can hear me loud and clear and you're ready to get the show on the road, right, the room has filled up, and of course, I know that there's an eager audience. I'm going to fill in for our regular host, our co-founder, Nadja Bester, who does the Future of NFTs.
JP
And today, what we're going to look at is, of course, the yes, there we are. We have both Rishav and Pranav. And I know that, Rishav, you've got a short time on the show today, but Rishav and Pranav are both going to be on. They're going to talk to us about StationX. In a nutshell, it's a protocol for organizations, Dows and communities to collectively govern their assets together towards any goal using pre-configured templates to set up a station. I know that's a mouthful, but I'm going to let both of them get on the show and talk to us more about it today. So, Rishav, Pranav unmute and say hi to the audience that's waiting to hear from you.
Rishav
Hi, everyone.
Pranav
Hello, everyone.
Rishav
Pleasure being here.
JP
Awesome. I want to start with something that everybody here needs to understand before we look at what's so spectacular about these projects, right?
JP
Could you tell us about you and your team and what makes you guys tick?
Rishav
. My journey started in:Rishav
m members. So fast forward to:Rishav
Yeah.
JP
Epic. Okay, I'm going to ask Pranav the same question, because you've created an arc about that entire journey. That's brilliant. I want to also ask Pranav if he can weigh in here if he has more to add to that same story. Go ahead, Pranav.
Pranav
Yes. Just want to check in. Am I audible?
Rishav
Loud and clear. All right.
Pranav
I think I met Rishav back to university, like I mentioned, and we've been working together for a while. Right. It was when Rishav first introduced me to crypto, and then I was a little skeptical in the beginning. I was curious about the space. I absolutely wanted to know more about this new asset class right. Because I was looking at Bitcoin as an asset, and I started diving into this new asset class.
That’s when I started investing with alongside Rishav. Right. That's when I really started participating in more pools, more dows, and more syndicates. And that was my green pill.
JP
Okay. Thanks, Pranav. Thanks for that. I like that salute to the green pill.
Pranav
Yeah.
JP
So, Rishav, you've shared your Arc, and you got new Web3, of course, because of your first investment into Bitcoin, and that's brilliant. I'm certain that's where a lot of us have started. A lot of us have been fascinated by this entire world, but it takes a different something to get into creating a company in this space and the utility of the technology there. Right. So what I want to ask you at this point is with reference to the NFTs, you'll have a very different use case when it comes to that. But I want to dwell first a little about how you see Dows making use of these NFTs.
Rishav
If you look at Dows today, essentially what Dows have figured out is the community angle and the communication layer. So if you see all the Dows, every Dow today has like a telegram channel or discord where the members essentially interact and that becomes the communication layer. The next thing that Dows have figured out, kind of or are going to figure out is how they want to gate their community. Right? So gating the community can essentially happen by a token and the token can be anything. The token can be ERC 20. If these tokens can be transferred, these essentially become public Dows, like the biggest Dows that you see today, like Uniswap or optimism or some bigger projects or protocols out there who have converted themselves into a Dow where their tokens act like a governance token. Right? Now, the power of NFTs with governance is that NFTs can essentially be given different traits or different characteristics, right?
Rishav
When I talk about traits, I do not talk about PFP, like the images or the JPEGs that you see which people buy that is just a representation or that is probably just to identify a certain project or a certain NFT. Right. But what is more exciting about NFTs for Dows is that you can have Dows that have subdows which are like different departments inside a Dow. You can have Dows that have different people focused on different areas of that particular Dow. So if going forward, if you imagine a country being managed like a Dow, all the departments inside a country would be subdows and each of these subdows would have people who would have NFTs. And these NFTs can have different roles, right. So every individual can be given a different NFT which represents their role in their subdow. Right. So you can achieve modular governance by NFTs.
Rishav
You can achieve different kinds of governance models from these NFTs. At this point, if you talk about ERC 20 tokens, they give you two essential models of governing a particular community. One in which every person having a set of tokens has one vote, that is like one person, one vote. Kind of a governance model where proposals are raised inside a Dow and people vote. And every individual who's holding a set of tokens is counted as one person casting one vote. The second model is weighted voting, right? Weighted voting essentially is used by protocols because in terms of protocols, what matters is who has how much at stake, right? And if you have a large amount of tokens which are held with you, that means you've made a big investment in terms of capital in that particular project, right. So you need to have slightly higher weightage in terms of the investment that you've done in terms of the decision making process.
Rishav
Right. So ERC 20 allows you to do weighted voting, right? But NFTs open a whole new way of engaging the community in terms of governance where you can do things like membership models, right? So every NFT holder becomes a member of a particular community and since these are illiquid, since these are like you can create both transferable or non-transferable NFTs if you talk about optimism today has a mix of soul bound and ERC 20 governance model. Right? So I think NFTs are going to change a lot of things when it comes to governance by introducing these rules and letting people be dynamic when it comes to creating or devising a voting structure for themselves.
JP
It's interesting that you mentioned that it's interesting that you mentioned it that way, that there is so many possibilities across that many utilities and for every subdivision that you create for a function, you're able to effectively have a use case for an NFT there, especially when it comes to a governance model, right?
Rishav
Absolutely.
JP
Fantastic. So do you see that this being in so many ways, the future where Dows are concerned? I mean, there's always this situation where, when it comes to governance, for example, that Dows have to function in a particular fashion, but it doesn't always reach that same objective. Yet at the same time, the question arises as to are humans capable of allowing technology to be responsible for their decision making? Right? Right, maybe from a process point of view, but I'm curious to understand your thoughts on that.
Rishav
There are a couple of misconceptions or myths when people say that Dows are going to completely automate decision making for individuals. I think Dows are more of a framework for better human coordination than taking the capability of making decisions from humans, right. So if you talk about allow you to coordinate, cooperate or get with people that are spread across the globe all glued by a common goal, right? Everyone in Dow is just glued by one goal, right? It could be investing together, it could be doing impact together like Ukraine Dow or it could be doing something like constitution Dow where everyone aligns with the idea that they have to buy the US. Constitution, right? So I think Dows are going to enable coordination better. And when we talk about program making decisions, it is not really the program making decisions. What you're doing is to keep it decentralized, permissionless and trustless where no one can tamper that particular system.
Rishav
Right? So the smart contract essentially is created with a thought that this cannot be tampered and this works on a set of rules provided all the members are on board, right? Provided a majority of the members are on board.
Pranav
Right.
Rishav
So the decision making is still with the people and which is why the Dows are more democratic. Dows essentially do not make decisions based on a program. The decisions are still made basis, governance and voting, those are just a framework or an infrastructure to help better coordination between people.
JP
I just wanted to ask for now if he had the few thoughts you'd like to agree in with.
Pranav
Yes, I would love to add here. Right? Yeah. When it comes to decision making. Right. I think the main job for Dows to do here is, again, create an infrastructure for humans to be able to coordinate by keeping capital at the center. Right. And when it comes to making decisions, I put like, any day, I think humans would trust code more than another human. Right. I mean, that's the entire point of creating a decentralized trustless organization. Do you mean it when you say trustless? Right. So it's for an organization where people, one, prioritize transparency. Two, is where the decisions of the organization, they could have hierarchy. It could be an entirely flat hierarchy. But then when it comes to decisions, I think it's really people that decide what happens with the money. And when communities work together by having that common goal, I think it's really about decisions.
Pranav
Decisions. There's just this environment that's created for decisions to happen in favor of the community's goal. Right. That's really just how we look at organizations very differently compared to the traditional organization, the organizations that we see otherwise.
JP
Thank you, Pranav. Yes, I agree. And I can see that as well. I agree with the thoughts you just shared. Right. Okay. So coming to this, and Rishav, I know that you shortened time and you've got to jump in on another call. That's absolutely fine. But I'd like you just for a minute to ponder over one thing. Right. Effectively, when it comes to web3 governance, you have mentioned what the smart contract can do. It can't do the fact that it is governed by a certain set of rules that we feed in at the beginning, of course, dealing with situations. Right. But I'd like to turn a spotlight onto web3 governance as a whole. I believe that's something that you and Pranav at StationX are working on. So could you share a little about web3 governance? What it is, what it's not, why it's important to encapsulate that as a whole to give us a better understanding of it?
Rishav
So I think governance essentially is at a very nascent stage where people are still figuring out how to best govern a particular community or a particular organization. Which is why if you see all these Dows, they have different kinds of governance models. Everyone is playing around and trying to figure out what governance works best for them because it really depends on what kind of organization you are and what kind of governance or voting structure you would require to best achieve your outcomes or best achieve your goals. Right. So if you see protocols essentially follow awaited voting. If you look at NFT projects where people have raised money from sale of NFTs to do a certain business by creating a Dow out of it. It could be buying real estate and then giving out yields to people. It could be using the capital and then staking it at some DeFi protocol.
Rishav
In those scenarios, it essentially becomes one person, one vote. Right. So I think governance is still very new to Web3, and it's going to be a while before some of the most preferred governance models are chosen or are derived. But yeah, I think we are getting there when it comes to governance in Web3.
Pranav
Quickly, if I can add here.
JP
Okay, so Rishav, if you've got to drop off, I totally understand. All the best with your call that's upcoming. Thank you for being on the show today.
Rishav
Thank you so much, JP, thank you so much for having me here. I take my leave with pardon, but I will soon join you for another podcast.
JP
Fingers crossed, and we'd be glad to have you again.
Rishav
Thank you.
JP
Right. All right, so for now, we're going to switch over to Pranav, co-founder at Station Next. Pranav, go for it.
Pranav
Yeah, I think I would just like to add to what Rishav mentioned, right. About governance in general. It is true that governance is evolving. I would not just talk of Web3 in general. Governance in general is something that's an evolving subject. Right. There's a lot of research going on around how communities can govern themselves and how people can really govern and come to making decisions around anything. Right. And in that way, even countries are working on multiple governance frameworks still date. Right. So even in Web3, I think we look at governance in a much simpler terms where how do people agree on to agree about a specific decision, right? So if, let's say were to collectively govern ourselves, we could be governing our assets. It's about us deciding what do we agree on, right? And that's why governance becomes something that really does not work in a one size fits all approach, right?
Pranav
It really does not work like that. And I think every organization sort of explores their own governance structure that works best for their goal and their community inherently. But absolutely an interesting subject to ponder upon, and I think I really would love to have more content around governance and communities come out on Twitter.
JP
Also, I agree with your points when it came to Dows and the decision making, of course, you said some important light, as did Rishav earlier. I want to shift focus in terms of what you're doing at StationX and from your perspective, we see a lot of the utilities of NFTs, but when it comes to utility of NFTs, and I know that Pranav has given one use case where it comes to able to create these micro departments. Each of those departments in turn is able then to utilize an NFT to access its functions.
Pranav
Right.
JP
But this would have been one of your considerations. What are some of the other possibilities you see the NFT is being used for?
Pranav
Absolutely. So I think the possibilities are there's a spectrum of possibilities that can be created around how NFT based communities can sort of organize themselves. Right. There's two ways to look at it. One, when a community wants to organize itself, right? So they want to organize itself towards a specific goal, right? And now this is where they issue themselves NFTs to be able to represent a share in that community or the presence in that community. Right? So that's where the community wants to organize first and then they look at NFTs as a medium for membership into that collective. Right. On the other hand, I think when it comes to NFT communities, otherwise, when they do not necessarily look to organize first, but they look to join the community first. Right. So you do not know what this community is going to do next. Right. But you buy into the art, you buy into the vibes, the way they say it, we buy into the thought of being involved.
Pranav
Right, and that's when you're a part of the community now. And now the community wants to organize itself around a specific goal, right? So once the NFT sell out the community, let's say this is a 10,000 holders community and this community wants to now allocate some money to do, let's say to do charity together, right? So we let's say if it's a, if it's a project around, you know, if it's a dog based project and they want to do some charity, et cetera. So now this is where they decide on how the money allocated for this charity has to be spent, right? Or it could be around how do we get work done inside our community. So we want to sort of taw ourselves to be able to transparently pay each other, reward each other, transparently make payments to external people outside the community and so on and so forth, right?
Pranav
So I look at NFT based organizations to be two sides of a coin. One where the community wants to organize itself around a goal and then they issue NFTs around that goal, right? And the other could be NFT communities that are inherently organizing themselves through the NFT and now want to sort of govern themselves by dowing them by turning into a Dow, right? So I think this is where I would see like one, for example, orange Dow is an NFT based Dow as well, right? But while they are an organization that sort of organized for the goal of investing together first and issued memberships in the form of NFT, because that's the kind of membership they wanted to give out. Right. But on the other side, if we, let's say, look at NFT communities, like if you look at Ape Academy and how they sort of create Degen Dow after the NFT sell out, right?
Pranav
So that's when the holders start forming dows and subdows together to be able to do multiple other activities, right? So it's really a spectrum of how NFTs and Dows sort of meet, right, as two different frameworks. And even when they meet, there's so many different kinds of possibilities on what can be created, right? What kind of organizational frameworks can be created around having people hold the NFTs? NFT need not just represent membership, right. NFTs could like also, I think, once mentioned, NFTs could also represent roles inside an organization, right? So if you sort of create a modular Dow, if you create a modular Dow, we can sort of give out NFTs that sort of give special privileges inside on what proposals you can raise versus what proposals I can raise, right? So stuff like that. I think NFT would be the primitive to identity. And when we look at NFT as a primitive to identity, and that's when there's so many other possibilities that can be created inside organizations also, right?
Pranav
So, yeah, I think there's definitely two sides and spectrum of possibilities that can be created and all of these sort of blocks come together, right? So to answer what we are doing at StationX, right, one interesting thing would be that we allow people to be able to do both, right? So one is when you want to organize yourself, right? So you're a bunch of people, there's a bunch of users on the internet, you want to sort of pull some money together because you might want to invest, start investing, right? So it's when you can decide, you know what, I want our memberships to be represented by NFTs, right? So you can set the NFT, you can set your art, and you sort of set one person, one vote, and you're live, right? Your Dow is deployed and you can start governing your assets together in a simple one person, one vote manner.
Pranav
And everybody has only these NFT holders sort of have access to this. Right? Now, there's so many other things that you can also do, like setting transferability or not transferability, right? So you can enable your members to become permanent members, where the NFT cannot be transferred ever from that wallet, which means the NFT. Or you can also let people publicly trade the NFT, right? Right. This is when it comes token gating, which is the first Lego block, as we call it, on StationX, where you can sort of NFT, you can get yourself using an NFT. You can sort of issue NFT or you can issue an Arc 20 token, which sort of represents an on chain cap table, right, where all of us have different shares in the same pool. So that's where you can sort of flexibly token gate yourself and then on top of it, now it comes to governance, it's up to the Tao on how they want to govern themselves, right?
Pranav
So right now, we try to keep the governance framework so simple in a way that governance should not be difficult. Right. I think that's one big problem out there. There's a dire need to solve that also for communities, even of any size, for that matter, right. Even if it's a small 20 people group that sort of wants to govern together, it does become a pain as of today, right. So I think there's definitely a lot of work that needs to be done, and I think we're sort of headed in the right direction when it comes to that, certainly.
JP
And I like what you particularly said when it comes to governance should not be complex. That's, of course, one of the challenges that we have, not just in, for example, the administration of an entire country, but if you look at it from a smaller point of view, maybe where it all begins with the most popular use cases, of course, even in organizations, right? Even in companies, small teams, startups, who knows, maybe even families, right?
JP
Absolutely. And it really does come down to that as to having better governance, having a smarter way of doing things, because that's what really the entire process of decentralization is about, right.
Pranav
In fact, also to give some sneak peek and some more alpha into how we're making it interesting, right, at StationX personally, because we've been a part of multiple towns, there's so many problems with how you get access to your information, right? So it's either you follow Twitter announcements that the so and so proposal is live, or you get a message on discord, and then it's like, now you'll have to then if you get access to the proposal, let's say a couple of days later, that's when you read the proposal and now you place a word. And also what happens is when you have to follow proposals, when following a proposal itself is a pain, right. How the proposal is raised, how you get to know about that proposal. There's an extra step that the holder or the contributor has to do to be able to vote, right.
Pranav
That really creates a room for low voter turnout in general, right. So we're trying to create a lot of creating a notification system that sort of lets the user decide, right? So if, let's say I'm a part of a Dow, right, I could be a part of multiple Dows, and in some Dows, I want to be notified about proposals that take an action on a treasury, right? It could be withdrawal on funds. Right. So if there's a proposal rate that's asking two ETH to be sent out to an external wallet, I want to be notified about that proposal. Right. But maybe I do not necessarily want to be notified about sentiment based proposals like polls, like, who should be should we remove this so and so person from so and so role? Right? Maybe this proposal is something that I do not find so important in this Dow that I'm a part of.
Pranav
Right. So I can create me as a contributor in Dows, I should have the freedom to choose what I want to be notified about. I am able to engage in a Dow in a way that I believe is right. This is the amount of engagement I want inside this Dow. So you create that for yourself. Right. So it won't and I directly get a notification on my phone, or I could directly get a message on my telegram. However, I configure that. Or I could opt for an email notification. Right. And when we do this, it becomes very easy to follow proposals that are being raised inside Tao. We are going to see an increasingly we're going to see an increasing percentage in voting turnout in from the smallest to the biggest sizes also. Right. Because it really changes how people sort of follow proposals and vote on proposals.
Pranav
Right. So, yeah, I mean, notifications also becomes one big step forward to making governance easy in the way we are trying to solve this problem for dogs.
JP
I like that. I like that is the focus and especially when it comes to governance in this particular space, that's what you're trying to solve. So hats off to you guys. I'm curious, of course, once you've said that, can you share some of the cases that have been unique, even just one example that has been unique that you don't find in most of the spaces and how that worked out? And feel free to go with either better or worse, right?
Pranav
Absolutely. Just to understand if I got you last question right. So asking what was unique about this space compared to others?
JP
Yeah. So one of the cases which was unique in one of the solutions you had as opposed to what you've seen maybe happening someplace else.
Pranav
Right. To answer that, I think we still have only some pools that are testing the product yet. So we have to see what are the different kinds of tasks that people create on StationX, Right? Because Taos itself are still in this phase of exploration. Right. In fact, that was one of the recent tweets we made on StationX, twitter also. Right. So we are still under the exploration of finding answers to three questions, right? What is money, what is ownership and what is an organization? Right. And we are just trying to find web3 primitive ways of answering these questions. So when it comes to StationX, some unique cases that I see is that we are going to see a lot more communities that are currently, one, do not find governance important. Right. We're seeing how the markets change. Right. And I mentioned this once in the space as well, on how we are going to see a complete shift on people trusting code more than humans and people trusting self.
Pranav
Custody over centralized solutions and so on and so forth. Right? So we are going to see a lot more communities that demand for Dows or Dow based operations moving forward, right? It's not going to be easy for communities to sort of just send out a wallet, address and tell, you know what, this is how we are going to spend so and so amount of money in this so and so because I think trust becomes a huge area that is going to change moving forward. Right. So I think we are going to see extremely different kinds of communities that choose Dow, that choose to Dow in any way because I think communities and people users are going to demand for a Dow focused approach and more over anything else. Right? So, yeah, I think that would be my take on unique cases.
JP
Got it. Okay. I think that is a good case to bring to consideration to bring to the spotlight. And thank you for sharing that product. Appreciate that insight to what you guys are doing in StationX. I have my next question, of course, is something that a lot of us want to understand from the industry when it comes to NFTs, right? In your opinion, what do you see as the Future of NFTs? How do you see it evolving from its current state? Whether it's in the use case that you've described or in use cases across the board where NFTs are? I'm curious to get your thoughts on that.
Pranav
Right, I have so much to say. I think when it comes to NFTs because I find NFTs very closely primitive to identity, right? And when you start looking at identity, it really changes how you look at anything in web3, right? And here I'm looking at NFTs to create communities that sort of identify themselves together, right? So let's say we are looking at, for example, we look at nouns now, right? Or let's say we're looking at nouns as a project, right? This is where NFT and the art and the mission and the values, everything sort of represented and you sort of buy into that representation, right? You want that representation. So this itself creates so many opportunities on what NFTs can create in terms of how people want to be represented. Right? And the other area that I see is how you want to identify your interests when it comes to collectibles, right?
Pranav
So that's when I think NFTs have a strong use case with collectibles, right? So we see the world as we see today is where if somebody wants to sell a Formula 1 t shirt to me, we see ads on Instagram, we see ads on Facebook, we see ads everywhere. These companies take your data, they want to apply deep tech and they want to sort of create these consumer focused ad sets for people to be able to sell for the business that's selling that T shirt to be able to sell to an audience that follows Formula 1 or likes cars or whatever, right? So that's when Facebook sort of takes the user's data and gives it to the business to be able to sell that T shirt, right? But what absolutely right. But what if I'm into football? I love football, right?
Pranav
And I want to identify and put it out there that I love football, right? It could just be that I own a collectible right? Now, this is my collectible for the football, right? Now, I might be having multiple things that I collect across the music that I listen to, the sports that I watch, the things that I do in my free time and so many other things. Collectibles sort of create an identity, right? And this is where somebody who is selling a Formula 1 T shirt, I would any day prefer that seller to directly come into the discord and sell the T shirt to all the NFT holders, right? And that's when you buy it and you don't necessarily have any third party that took your data and gave it to the seller, right? It was you because it was you that bought the collectible.
Pranav
You bought into that community and you bought into that interest, right? So you publicly put it out there that, yeah, I do watch football, right? I might be a consumer for that T shirt, right? So I think it's about self-declaring interest and how we look at NFTs and how you collect. NFT sort of create your identity. And your identity is out there on chain. Your identity is out there on the Internet and it creates a fair opportunity and I think it just creates fair ways to be able to sell things online and it changes how people participate in communities. People identify themselves in different communities, right? So that's when it comes to collectibles and when it comes e NFTs for access, NFTs for access, we are looking at NFTs and brands executing loyalty based functions for NFTs. They're creating ticketing accesses using NFTs. I look at NFT as just a framework, the same way how I look at Dows as a framework as well, right?
Pranav
So when I say framework, it's really about how early Internet happened. HTML and et cetera were just frameworks, right? We never imagined that there would be people sitting and creating web pages that would stream videos, right? Personally, initially, when I started reading blogs on the internet, early internet, right, that's when I could never imagine that people would now add payment layers on these web pages. And now then people will start doing online commerce and so many other things, right? But the underlying framework that was introduced to the market, right, on top of which people could build, right, and what people kept building, brought us to where the world is today, right? So I look at NFT as this HTML equivalent framework that has just started letting people to build on top of this. Right. And it will be really interesting to see what are these different things that we are going to see in the next five to ten years.
Pranav
But yeah, even in fact, while I say that NFTs are only, I definitely don't think that only because of the amount of capital that NFTs create for creators already. I think there's multiple reports that there's multiple reports out there that prove how well creators sort of monetize better using NFT based frameworks than any other centralized alternative that they do, which could be like selling art elsewhere. Right? So, yeah, I think we're early and despite being early, I think there's so much value that's already being created. I think it's only onwards and upwards from here.
JP
I'm in agreement with you? 100%. I mean, there is every single day something exciting that happens about the utilities in this particular space. Of course, it's absolutely fascinating where this technology is leading. I think you even hinted about SBNs at some point is one of your best use cases. Very true. Right. Fantastic. Okay. Now we have come, or we are coming to the close of the show, but before we do that, there's two things that we want to do. The first one, of course, is I have one question for you and then we're going to take a question from the audience before we wrap up. So my last question to you and of course team StationX is what is your philosophy about Web3 changing lives?
Pranav
Philosophy about Web3 changing lives? I love that question. I think so many companies that have come changed lives. There's so many businesses and there's so many inventions that have happened that have intrinsically changed lives of people and it's changed how humanity does certain things, right? Starting from automobile to the railroads and to railways and so many other things that have happened in the world, right? The modern industrial age that we see as of today, and then again internet and then social networks and so many other things. There are so many things that have come and actually disrupted and changed how humanity does things, right. Web3 has my particular interest because I do believe that what web could do, what Internet could do is so much more than what it is currently able to do. Right? So we are looking at creating when we talk about creating borderless money, we are talking about internet has killed borders.
Pranav
Really anyway, right? We will be able to meet on the internet. So there's this thing about how we could be geographically very far, right? But we could be geodesically very close to each other, right? So geodesic distance becomes your, I could be closest to the people I meet and greet on Twitter every day, right? But maybe I just have never spoke to my immediate neighbor who lives next door. Right? So geodesic distance with somebody you meet online, that person is very close to you versus the person who's physically, geographically next door to you. Right? Internet has really killed borders in that way. Right? Now, people are borderless, right? So when people are borderless, what is the next thing that you want to see? Now? The next thing we see is borderless money, right? So when borderless people are able to do more with borderless money, right?
Pranav
That's when people are able to now send and receive money from different parts of the world with each other. That creates an economy where I can sell things to anybody in the world, right? This changes how the market functions per se. It might be very wild for me to think of selling something in, let's say, Germany today, right? I just do not know how to sell a specific product in Germany. There could be so many things that I need to know. Right? But let's say if were really a free market, I think it should be very easy for me to make a sale in Germany. It should be equally as easy for me to do the same sale in, let's say, any other country also, right? Every person deserves to find customers for their business across the world and not necessarily in the same geographical place, right?
Pranav
So that way, I think definitely we're going to see how borderless economies evolve, how people are borderless people, borderless money, and borderless organizations also, right? While we do see the companies across the world, with workforce across the world, et cetera, but it's really more the way I see it's more top bottom, right? Amazon will set up an office in India when they grow till India, right? But what if a borderless organization would just form from across the world, right? And we are really looking at organizations not to replace how traditional organizations work, right? Traditional organizations, one, I do believe that they don't need to completely become a decentralized organization per se. Because this is definitely going to coexist, right? The way companies work today, the way they work today, and the things that work for these current companies and the ways of work that is working for these companies right now is not going to change drastically.
Pranav
But I think we are just going to see new ways of people organizing themselves and new formats of businesses that will evolve because of Dows, right? And it will just coexist. And we're going to see people from across the world investing and exploring new asset classes. It could be digital and IRL, both. We are going to see communities do businesses, communities owning businesses. And it's really just going to change on how markets evolve, right? So I look at web three to create a world where free market it just feels right to have a free market for everybody, right? Where people are able to. It does not depend so much on where you come from, what gender you are, or how you identify yourself, et cetera. It's just really about you're on the web. I just met you. It should be easy for us to be able to exchange value, store value, and create value.
JP
Okay. It's a good thing I have this feature on, so I'm able to pick up what you've said. Yeah, exactly. So when it comes to this particular element of value, it does make sense. And I specifically like how you create the narrative where the borders begin to dissolve and we can get closer together despite where we are on the planet, using this as a particular tool to do so. Fantastic. Thank you for that Pranav.
Pranav
100%.
JP
Okay, ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for tuning into this week's episode of The Future of NFTs. We will be back next week at the same time in the same place. See you then. Cheers.
