2022 Q4 saw Web3 events around the world while in Bear Market conditions. Team AdLunam visited events across the USA, Europe, Africa, The Middle East and Asia. On the show with Nadja Bester Co Founder of AdLunam (and host of The Future of NFTs) we focused on, What the pulse of the people felt like. Pessimissim or Optimism for 2023? Lets find out.
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Transcript
Participants:
• JP (CMO of AdLunam)
• Nadja Bester (Co-Founder of AdLunam)
JP
d what to expect in crypto in:JP
So Nadja kept picking back up on that thread of the conversation we’re having before we had to switch to another space. I understand that you went, well, let's roll back a little to the event that you were part of. And I remember you saying something to the effect of there was a focus more on tech, not so much Web3, but mainly mainstream tech. But you can also see that Web3 is seeping into the space right now. It's getting its space, it's not being ignored, would that be fair to say?
Nadja
Absolutely. And I think that's a very positive take on it just for the purpose of the recording since we will not have the previous version of what we’re talking about earlier. So I had attended Africa Tech in Cape Town, South Africa a couple of probably weeks ago now, and this is annual festival that happens every year in Africa. Well, focuses on Africa as a whole. I think it's generally or perhaps even every year hosted in South Africa. And it was really interesting from the perspective know, the name itself of course, is very representative of what it's about. But it also in that sense then lays claim to the concept of tech in Africa. And seen from that perspective, it was quite disappointing in the fact that Web3 really came as an afterthought more than something that is of prominence. But I think what you just said about Web3 seeping in everywhere.
Nadja
So people in attendance at the conference come from very traditional tech backgrounds. And as I was saying earlier, it's funny now at this time in the world to say traditional tech because I remember a time even in my own career when tech was for sure not what it is today. No one was on the Internet no one was using social media and so now to say traditional tech is quite ironic but so it really is a case of on the one hand you can see the differences between continents. For example. So I am African. I'm from South Africa, but I don't live there. So I don't have the day to day conversations with projects and even with users, retail investors, people interested in the space or active in the space at many different levels. But the representation of Web3 at this particular conference was not very strong.
Nadja
If you then compare this to what is happening on other continents, for example, Europe, where I'm based, or Asia, where you are based, where I was also based until not too long ago, the US. And even South America you can see the difference. You can see how certain continents are taking this technology and running with it. And then there are others, unfortunately, where it's not as prominent, let's say. But I love the positive spin that you put on it. And thank you for that, because I think it really highlights also, that despite it not being the main sort of focus in terms of I mean, Africa, if we take Africa, it's a very particular market in the sense a lot of people in mean globally. Most unbanked people in the world are in Africa. So if we are talking about technology, you can't put cutting edge tech in Europe in the same category as cutting edge tech in Africa because in know there are people who are not even connected in terms of cell phone connections as yet.
Nadja
So it is for sure a huge difference if you compare what's happening in the Web3 space in the other continents to what's happening. I'm talking specifically about this conference. Of course there's a lot of things happening so this was not super representative of what's happening on the continent, I believe, but at the same time the fact that it was part of the conference, even if it was more of a bit of an afterthought, just also highlights that it is a conversation that cannot be ignored. And what I did find incredibly interesting is attendees at the Web3 events that happened at the conference. People from very traditional backgrounds and very traditional job roles and completely not with the kind of exposure to Web3 that we have. For example, they were incredibly interested and were asking very focused and very targeted questions. So you can see that this is a ball that's rolling and it's going to continue rolling and it's going to snowball everywhere across the world and that for me was a really big takeaway from this event.
JP
Well, it's fantastic that you mentioned that, Nadja, because if you look at the entire population of the world that's even using crypto and then it's a very small number. When you look at the web3 adoption, it's a very small number, right? So it's of course, a matter of time before it starts percolating to markets that are often ignored. And on the one hand, also, I think, as a marketeer, there's something that we have to acknowledge and appreciate is that most people will talk about Africa as just Africa, like it's one state, but it's not. There's so much of and there are pockets because everyone is accelerating at a different space on a continent. Right. So you do have of in some amount of interest and access in South Africa. Of course, there's also Nigeria. There's Kenya, Ghana and Cameroon. And this is, of course, just some of what I'm relating to, what one of our earlier guests, crypto Chain Afrik, had mentioned on the show.
JP
So it will be very interesting to see how this develops.
Nadja
Yeah, I mean, 100%, it's so important, especially when these conversations are happening around Africa as a continent, to keep in mind that it is a continent and it's a huge continent and there's a lot happening at all different levels. Inclusion runs the gamut of and this is inclusion of everything, whether this is tech adoption and tech inclusion, whether this is financial adoption and financial inclusion, and everything else from startups to business activities across the continent. So there's a huge spectrum of happenings at all different levels. And I think, as you rightly say, it's incredibly important to keep that in mind whenever these conversations are happening, because what tends to happen is Africa as a continent. I mean, this is why we all have the joke about Africa not being a country, but a continent, because there is this general tendency in the world to group the entirety of Africa together as this one destination.
Nadja
And I mean, we in the world, including us in Africa, don't have this saying, know your parents tell you, eat your food because remember, there's starving kids in you know, it's quite difficult to say that when you're in Africa, but at the same time, quite easy because the hungry kids are just out there. So the thing is this is incredibly important and I think know we are talking about Africa right now but if we zoom out a little bit and we use the same line of thinking about every market in the mean. And we see this across social media, where it's greatly enhanced as a practice, this idea that we're living in an echo chamber, we're living in a bubble. So if all your friends are talking about owning bitcoin, that means the whole world must own bitcoin. And then we are shocked when we realize, oh, but there's people who a, I don't know if there's many people left who don't have never heard of bitcoin, but A, people have not heard of it, B, they don't own any C, they don't believe in it.
Nadja
So it's very easy in any market and in any industry to think that because of your level of understanding, because of your level of involvement that reflects the entirety of the world. So similar to in Africa. Therefore, sure, being companies doing amazing work and people at all levels being involved in very interesting and very game changing ways. But there are also a large cohort of people who are not part of this, and the same goes for every market on Earth. So I think as people in web3, it's always so incredibly important to do this sort of self reflection and positioning yourself in relation to the rest of the world, to keep on reminding ourselves that we are so freaking early. Like every year we feel, okay now, we there, it's mainstream now, only to realize, no, it's completely so far from mainstream that it's going to take decades to get there, in the same way that the Internet took years and years before it took off.
Nadja
So, I mean, we are incredibly early. And that is something we have to remind ourselves, both in terms of soothing ourselves when all the bad news hits the press, as it has this past year and especially these last few weeks. But at the same time also to remind ourselves how early it is in terms of the opportunities not only the opportunities for ourselves, but the opportunities to shape this industry and where it's going. I think in light of what has happened with FTX, we really again can see that if this industry is a free for all, then it's so crucially important that people with the right intentions become leaders and that we don't only give prominence to those who rise to the top because they are the ones who are the hungriest or the greediest for power and for influence.
JP
Oh, fair enough. We've been through a complete bear market cycle over the last 300, easily over about 380 days. Right. And looking at it's diminished confidence across the industry, globally even. Right. And at a point like this, when you reference, of course, the debacle that was FTX, you have so many more people naysaying what's happening with crypto and Web3? Because now the question is, should we even consider the technology? So it's really heartening to see that events like Tech Africa, the Benzinga event that Lawrence was a part of, ETH India, that happened. And I'll brief the audience a little about that as we go forward. It's really good to see that there still is faith in what we're doing. There still is an understanding that these things may happen. And considering the previous cycles, a lot of the feedback that seems to be coming in at this point is we understand that these things may happen, but we are not going to lose our faith in it, despite what mass media may be talking about.
JP
Was that also in some way a pulse that you got while you were.
Nadja
To since the focus is at the moment on the events and the insights from them. I also attended a Binance event in Cape Town a couple of days ago and I also got a lot of sort of finger on the pulse from people on the ground there. So a lot of the people in attendance were retail traders and the conversation centered in large part around is this market dead? Is this industry dead? Is there any future for any of this? And I think what you said a couple of sentences back is so important because what happens as a result of these fiascos that we are seeing in the industry is the technology is being brought into question and ultimately blockchain crypto, web3. If we strip it of everything else, if we strip it of all the visions and the opportunities and get rich quick and the win Lambo and the moon and all of those things, it's still a technology.
Nadja
And so technology is agnostic to same as money. I mean we say that money is the root of all evil. Money is completely I mean it's an inanimate object that cannot be the root of all evil or all goodness or all happiness. It's all human, right? So in this sense, the technology that is the foundation of this industry, it is human prerogative, human drive, human ambition and greed and vision agnostic. It's what we do with it. And so what I was seeing, especially at this Binance event that I attended was there is still this narrative in the industry and I'm talking now not from the perspective of people working in the industry because of course we work with other people in the industry every single day. So we genuinely are in the fortunate position to meet amazing people on a daily basis. I mean, if I think about, like, AdLunam, I love what we're building.
Nadja
But some of the most amazing highlights of my every day is the people that we speak to, different projects, other ecosystem partners, and to hear the vision and the drive and to hear the determination that, look, here is this historically significant event that is taking place. And I feel as an individual and as a team and as a company that I have something to contribute. So we are very lucky to be able to have these conversations each and every single day. However, people at the retail level, it's completely not the same thing. They might be the only person in their circle of friends or in their family or in their society that is so called crazy enough to have put any money into this and then bad stuff happens. And so the learning is oops well other people told me not to do it but there's still so much to be gotten so maybe I should just stick it out.
Nadja
And so there's a huge emotional roller coaster that's happening at the retail level and this whole idea of being crashing and burning and crashing and burning as an industry professional, I've seen this is not my first bear market. I have survived more than one before. So I know that for me, I just have to wait it out. And at the same time, I feel so privileged to be part of bear markets because this is the time. It's a cliché to say that it's a time to build. But genuinely, if you are someone building, it's an incredible time because it allows you that breathing room. I mean, anyone who's ever been part of any startup in any industry knows that when everything is touch and go, pushing, pushing forward, you don't have the time and the opportunity to take a step back and to ask yourself, okay, but what am I building?
Nadja
And am I still building in the right direction? And so every time that we have a bear market, there is this great reset, there's this great reset of values, there's this great reset of how we show up as an industry. So I have 100% faith in what is happening and what is continuing to happen and what will happen. But the problem is, if I speak to the average person on the street, the only question in their mind right now and I'm not even using this as an example or analogy this is literally the question that I get. And I'm sure everyone else on this listening in right now can attest that it happens to them as well. People are nonstop asking me, oh but is crypto dead now or what's happened? What are you going to do now that all of this is over? But the problem is this is the message that draws down to retail level.
Nadja
And so from my perspective, you can't fault people who are not so privy to the inside workings for thinking this way if that is the only thing that we as an industry are getting people's attention for. I mean, how many people know what is happening in this amazing space? In terms of cutting edge innovations, I am extremely inspired every single day of the week about what people are building, but who gets to see it apart from other industry insiders? And that really for me is the question in terms of if we talk about adoption, well, adoption needs to filter down to the level where people know the good of what is going on in this industry.
JP
Spot on Nadja, spot on. The majority of any player in an industry that has any finance attached to it will be those that are either institutional or retail investors. And that being said, it works the same with we've seen everywhere, right? You've seen it in money markets, you see it in the stock market, you see it in bonds market, the treasury holdings. You of course are going to see that in crypto, right? 90% of the people easily. I mean I'm of course just spitting out a number here. I've got nothing to back it up. But 90% of the people that you will meet will have an interest in crypto because they only see the Surface, not even the tip of the ice. They would see an arc or just a Surface, which is, oh, okay. There's a market where if you invest some money, you'll be able to make a huge multiplier that doesn't correlate with the standard market.
JP
So I have the potential to make a lot of money, and that's the only thought that they had. But like you said, right, when you peel away all those layers of the finance and look at the actual tech, you do have something that's life changing. And I believe that's what a lot of the interest drivers will eventually come around to, keeping the industry going. And it doesn't matter whatever the price of bitcoin was yesterday, last year, or is going to be tomorrow, but that technology is still going to stay on. You're still going to have a large group that is invested in it, developing it, building it. Right? And people who are in the industry, like us, have a responsibility. Let me just say that we have a responsibility to educate as many people as we can, that this is how it actually works, and not to look at just the Surface and say that, oh, okay, this has happened, or a scam has happened, or a price has dropped 90%, 98%, 99%.
JP
But hold on, there is something more that's better that will come by virtue of you being in this space.
Nadja
ch industry. This was back in:Nadja
Imagine if we had approached it in the same way that we are approaching Web3. Imagine if everyone got online because there was money to be made for sure. The Internet. I mean, ironically, this is exactly why people got on the Internet in terms of businesses, because they recognize that there's money to be made. But for users, the thing is that users started using the Internet because they understood and social media as well, because they understood that it is offering them something that is more beneficial than the alternative. Exactly. The question is, are we doing this in web3? Are we approaching people? Are we engaging with average people in the world? And are we explaining what is happening in such a way that people can see the benefit of what is being built in their own lives? Or are we all following the same narrative of, you know what?
Nadja
Come around this corner. I've got some gains for you over here. And, I mean, it goes with the territory. A lot of people have made fortunes, have built a lot of generational wealth, and I'm not negating the importance of that, because this, from a financial point of view, it is a game changer. And, I mean, not to say that we should turn our backs on these opportunities, but really, the question is if that is the only thing that is center in people's minds. So web3 is synonymous with I can make a lot of money or I can lose everything. It becomes no more than gambling. And, I mean, as someone for example, I completely have zero interest in gambling. So you can tell me the most wonderful things happening at a casino. I have zero interest in going because it's just not my thing.
Nadja
So are we positioning this industry in such a way that people go, oh, but crypto is not my thing because there's really room enough for everyone? I mean, again, if you look at the type of people and the huge diversity of people in the space, it's impossible that there's not something for everyone, because, again, at the end of the day, it's a technology. And so you can't say that unless you're, I don't know, Amish, and you don't use technology. You can't really say that a technology is not for you. Maybe the use case is not for you. Maybe a particular philosophy or a particular approach or expression is not for you. But this is the question. Are we focusing on the technology? So now I want to throw the question back at you, because you recently attended. I mean, I think having given my perspective of what's happening in Africa or not happening in Africa, as the case may be, of course, India, Asia in general, and India specifically, is a very active market, especially when it comes to the technology behind web3.
Nadja
So I would love to hear a little bit about your experience there, your insights, because I think, yeah, there's a ton of stuff that's happening on the subcontinent that's happening. I mean, what was the event like? Let's start there.
JP
Sure. Certainly I want to pick up on that last point that you've said before I dive into this, because I think it does merit saying when we talk about the technology. And, for example, if you're oriented to be Amish right, and you want to step away from that, there is no space that you can escape it. Think of it this way. FIFA is happening, the FIFA World Cup is happening at this point. The greatest show on Earth. I will call it the greatest show on Earth. It is called the Greatest Show on Earth. It's been marketed as the greatest show on Earth. Guess what? Binance tied up with arguably one of the greatest players of all time, Cristiano Ronaldo. Right? You have Web3 as an influence there. You have Web3 as an influence in even the real estate space. You have Web3 as an influence even when it comes to documentation.
JP
Now, here's one of the things that did happen at ETH India, when we attended, and I'll make a little timeline before the events leading up to ETH India, right? I had somebody who had come up to me and said, oh, hey, you represent a launch pad. I have a project that I'm working on and I'm going to build. And when I asked him what it was, he's like, we're building something that is Web3 based, but it is better than Tinder. Right. I could totally see how that was going to play out before he even told me. The moment he said that he's doing Web3 for Tinder, I'm thinking soul bound tokens. Okay. My very first girlfriend is somehow in the future going to know that I had associated some way with this person and this person. And no matter how many marriages I may have, that's all going to get recorded somewhere because it's going to be on my SPF.
JP
. There were:JP
A few weeks later, I headed over to the Web3 summit in Dubai. And at the web3 summit, you had, of course, MetaMask. You had Neon Labs. You had a ton of businesses that were there that were looking at multiple areas in web3, from, of course, wallets to new chains. To developers to layer 2s and a host of solutions, including those that were specifically targeted at developers transitioning from web2 to web3. Right. In a separate area at the same space, you had an entire host of VCs talking to these people about, these are the kind of investments that we are looking to invest in. These are the kind of projects we're looking to invest in. And mind you, all of this is happening after the fiasco, which is supposed to have crippled the industry. Fast forward two weeks later, ETH India, starting on the 30th and moving downwards.
JP
StarkNet, Filecoin, the Hacker House, Polygon Connect, all of these people had riveted audiences, having hackathons, having projects, having a whole stream of developers come in. And it wasn't just to go there and pick up the swag. Swag of course, is the giveaways, right. It wasn't only for that. It was actually to pay attention to who is there, what is happening in the space, how can I be part of it? How can I sign up and be part of maybe lens protocol or keyDAO stator, right? Push and all these different projects, the intensity, the excitement, the interest is the energy was something else altogether. And I think it's very important that while we work in a decentralized space which you can have an identity that is remote, it is equally important to form connections that are also real, right, in some way, shape or form, fosters more trust, it creates deeper connections.
JP
And in many ways, it's going to be the one thing that's going to keep this community alive and the community growing. So no matter what you hear from the outside, the eye of the storm is still that there is a lot of interest in the entire industry.
Nadja
Yeah. Thank you, JP. That's beautiful. It's music not only to my ears, but I think to everyone listening to this. I love what you said about as much as we have these decentralized identities, there's still this shared identity of we are building something new, we are part of something bigger than ourselves. I mean, how many generations in the history of the world could actively participate in something the way that we are doing right now? Participation. I mean, what does it mean if we talk about participation in web3? If you take this cliché of the American dream, the whole premise behind the American dream is anywhere, anyone can do anything. And this is something that is not the case in other countries or didn't used to be the case way back when. And this is what captured people's imaginations, is this idea that wow, but you are not bound by who you are, where you are, what you are, but you can make it, you can create your own destiny.
Nadja
I get really lucky, I get out:Nadja
So the conversation is happening at different levels. So the importance of what we are doing in the industry, all of these amazing minds coming together and sharing this collective identity of wow, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity to use. As you mentioned earlier, the Benzinga conference that AdLunam CTO and co-founder Lawrence Hutson was speaking at yesterday, where they spoke about trustless identities and not identities, trustless technologies and why you should trust it. I mean this is ultimately what it comes down to. People on the ground, people out there in the world don't quite understand what this is all about because the only narrative being pushed is the money aspect of it. But man, if you look at the technology, if you look at the possibilities, the unending possibilities of the changes that these things are going to bring, then it's so beautiful to hear that there are communities in the world where people as you mean Chennai is not even one of the top tier Indian cities.
Nadja
So you can't say the tech minds of the country is in Chennai, but the opportunities presenting themselves in terms of but you know what, as a developer I can actually, if I'm in any case going to learn skills to get me a career, I want to actually add this. I was at the Crypto Banter for those of you in the audience who knows this YouTube channel. Very awesome guys, beautiful people. Really highly recommend watching the channel and the folks on there. So I was at the offices a couple of weeks ago and I met a guy there who came for a job interview and it was a young guy, a young developer and it seemed like it might have been his first job interview in his life. And we had a little conversation and I asked him why this? Why out of all of the career options, not in terms of becoming a developer, but why week three, why do you pursue this avenue?
Nadja
And he looked at me and he said, because this is the future. Why would you even ask me such a question? It's super obvious. Where else would I be? And it's beautiful that we are giving so, like, we as an industry are creating so many opportunities for all different levels of minds. Whether you are the next Nikola Tesla or whether you are just another person hustling and bustling and whether you want to make your mark in the world in whichever way you want to do it, or whether you just want to get a salary. Whoever you are, there's space for you in this industry. And I think it's so important that these are the conversations that we should be having rather than, oh my God, the charts are red again. What are we going to do? It's a catastrophe. The world's at an end. Good times up ahead.
Nadja
If we shift a little bit to the left.
JP
Yeah, you know, Nadja, I also think it's extremely interesting that earlier when it came to tech and you've been in the space before, right, but what you'd often find was these communities that were just looking at adoptive languages, right? Like, you'd have some for Drupal or you'd have some for JS, right, and then you'd have Laravel, and then you'd have all your other languages and it was like, oh, okay, which of us has the largest community? Those are the ones that are going to win because obviously all technology will be built on that. But today it's so much more universal, even with a large scale of the developers, because it's still new, it's still fresh, and they are beginning to understand that, yes, our career opportunities, what people were telling us, that, oh, okay, ten years from now it's going to shift because everyone's invested in it.
JP
This is happening now, right? That transition, that cusp being on the cusp is this is that time. And the more that people realize that, or the faster they realize that, the quicker they'll be able to accelerate away from the competition. It reminds me of a time where way back at a space that I used to live, somebody came up and told me, know, I was one of the top programmers in DOS. And when Microsoft came, know, when Windows came in, that was it. I mean, Dos had no place anymore. And it's a matter of time before that level of a transition. Keep in mind, most of the virtually every system, including a thermometer, worked on some form of DOS, right? This shift, this transition, this transformation is happening now, and we are living in exciting times. It may not look like it, but I'm certain that we'll look back at these moments and these points and say, yes, this was the next stage where were in that cocoon, and we're coming out of it better and more beautiful.
Nadja
and whatever was a tragedy at:Nadja
There are brilliant people actively working on these problems, actively seeking solutions. So this idea that I wanted to link it to another story, speaking of your DOS guy, I spoke to someone recently who is a developer, but in the, again traditional tech space. And were discussing the technologies that he uses and he expressed fear and he said I know that even within my space, the technology that I am using is becoming more and more outdated. There are only select corporates still using it. And to be honest, I know that if I no longer work at this company where I'm working right now, even though my skills as a developer is excellent, but because of the technology that I'm using and that I'm an expert in not being as popular as it used to be. I don't know what's going to happen out there in the job market because I will only be able to get a job at another company using the same technology.
Nadja
And I think this was such a stark reminder that as you say, ultimately the bigger the community of a technology, the more likelihood that the technology will continue to exist. So we are very early days right now in terms of Web3 technology. So it's not a case of oh, if you don't get on board now, you won't have a job in 20 years. But the thing is, think about the difference between a person, especially a young person starting their career. But I mean with a caveat you can start and restart your career at any age throughout your entire life. So there's no such thing as young people and you make a choice once. But think about it this way. Think about a young person starting their career right now. We've all been there. You have the rest of your life in front of you.
Nadja
You have to anticipate where the market is going to go. And I mean, if you're 18, you know nothing about the world. So to expect you to understand market trends and industry trends, I mean, that's a little too much. So if you now start off your career in a traditional tech space and I mean that's all good and well because it's not going to disappear. But if we fast forward 20 years from now, a lot more things are going to be a lot more Web3 than it is now the same as what happened with the Internet. And so imagine if you not to say that you have to jump 100% into this industry, no one is asking you to make this big choice to rule them all, but keep an ear to the ground, keep abreast of what is happening on the side, learn a little bit.
Nadja
And I'm using developers as an example, but I mean, this counts for every single person on this planet, whatever industry you're involved with. I was in fact speaking to a friend just before I came on the Twitter Spaces and he was saying that he's getting involved with maritime logistics. He's doing postgraduate studies in this field. And I asked, well, out of interest sake, what is the talk about blockchain in this space? Because I know there was recently this announcement that one of the largest blockchain logistic maritime projects didn't have a happy ending, seemed to have closed down. And I was very curious, what is the level of conversation in the educational aspect when it comes to industry? And he said, well, they don't really talk about it in the, let's say, standard curriculum, but there is a specialization where you are able to specialize in blockchain.
Nadja
And again, just coming back to what we said earlier at the beginning of the show of it's something you can't get away from. So it's really something that is everywhere, even if it's very niche, even if it's something that many people, well, most people don't understand, many people don't believe in. But again, drilling down that in the end, this is a technology above everything else, beneath everything else, it is, was and always will be a technology. And anything that's a technology is moldable by any person who is able to use this technology. So whatever is being built, whatever is being created on top of it, that's done by humans. But the technology is there for every person to start implementing to whatever degree and in whatever extent that they want to do so. And this really is the huge opportunity. The question, the invitation to you as a person, to all of us, is this technology exists, it's here.
Nadja
And you don't have to be a developer to use the technology. You can be anybody. But are you going to accept this invitation? What are you going to do? Are you going to say yes even if you don't understand what to do or how to do it? But start with a basic question. Are you going to say yes to this? Are you going to say no to this? Because some people are going to say yes. Many people are going to say no until it gets to that point where, as you say, it's inevitable, cannot be ignored anymore. But by then everyone has no choice to say yes. But maybe you started saying yes 5, 10, 15 years ago. And that's really the key thing that's going to differentiate some individuals from others.
JP
tly. It's like the journey of:JP
And I know that you had one more you just unmuted your mic, go ahead with it.
Nadja
No, I also didn't realize the time. So we did get started a bit late. So it's not as though the conversation is going over time because we started late. But I just wanted to add one thing that you were saying about this analogy of the hills and valleys. I love hiking and I do it very frequently. And when it's an easy hike, I mean, it's nice, it's always nice, but it's not the same as doing a really difficult hike. Now when I'm going up a mountain and I hate uphill, it's like my body was not built for it. I'm freaking allergic to it. And as I'm going up, the only thing going through my head is, why the hell do I torture myself like this? What is wrong with me that I could be somewhere else right now? I don't know, sitting for one, drinking something, eating something, doing something really relaxing and comfortable.
Nadja
And yet here I am, in pain, busy, dying. But then I remind myself, well, A, it's too late to go back, so I'm halfway up already, so I might as well keep going. But I remind myself, you know what? The reason you're doing this is because when you get to the top, first of all, the view that you have from there is something you cannot see from the ground. The view is already there. That's the beauty of it. It doesn't come into existence because I'm there. The view is already there. It's just that I personally, as an individual, would like to share in that view. And second, I know that by the time I get to the top, the feeling inside of me of what I've just achieved, I might have killed my thighs. But man, it was for a good cause because I conquered this part of myself that said, no, I'm too lazy for this.
Nadja
So in a similar sense, what we are doing in this industry is, it's not easy. It's really not easy. I mean, if you work in this industry, chances are you've asked yourself multiple times, why the hell am I doing this? There's really an easier way to spend my days. And similarly for people not involved in a professional context, but that are supporting the technology in one way or another, yes, there's a lot of problems here, there's a lot of things that need to be sorted out. But the question is, what's the view going to be like from the top? Can you imagine? Fast forwarding a few years. I mean, you were saying earlier about the tinder for web3 and I'm thinking, oh my God, I'm glad that I'm no longer at the age where that's going to be a thing because I'm not sure I want my whole dating history on the chain.
Nadja
But, I mean, the thing is, can you imagine a world where the rules of engagement at any level is just going to be so different than it is today? I mean, this whole idea of trustlessness, what does it mean to us as humans to say that something can be trustless? We have no idea because we place all of our faith and all of our trust in humans. Think about it this way, we are not leveraging technology to replace areas of trust because we place our trust in human beings and human beings are fallible by nature. We blame leaders and people out there in the world who hurt us with their bad choices. But we are human and humans, this is just what humans do. And so if we want to engage each other in a way that is not so painful, then maybe we should just remove certain things from the equation.
Nadja
So, yeah, looking forward to:JP
On that note of taking a hike, I think I should listen to the people around me and I'm also a bit inspired about what you're saying because I keep getting this a lot. Jervis, go take a hike. Go take a hike. So, yeah, I think that is something that I should, at some point of time, indulge in.
Nadja
You. I'm not going to spoil what these guys are saying, to know, let them keep saying it and you just go take a hike with me in the mountains.
JP
I think I missed a bit there when I lost sound Nadja. Go ahead.
Nadja
You'll listen to the recording afterwards and appreciate my bad joke.
JP
Fair enough. Fair enough. All right. Okay. Well, ladies and gentlemen, I think it is time to call the show to an end. But, Nadja, thank you so much for sharing those insights on Tech Africa, the perspectives that exist for us, and also briefly, the philosophical point about how we have the ability, not just the power, but we have the ability to mold technology in a way that can make lives better.
Nadja
Very well said. And thank you so much for this amazing opportunity to be able to speak to you and to the AdLunam community. And lastly, thank you so much for all of the incredible insights that you took away from ETH India, and from all of the events surrounding it. Because I think that is the positive news that we all love to feed on, is to hear that there are huge pockets of people across the world who are very positively working towards new, exciting, good changes in this industry. So, amen to that. And, yeah, to the future we go.
JP
To the future we go. Speaking of the future, there we go. Ladies and gentlemen, I want to take this opportunity to announce that AdLunam is going to be launching a campaign with our backer investor and partner with Gains Associates. And this is a meme contest that we're having. It's going to launch later this evening. So stay tuned to AdLunam Inc. For more details. There's a prize of 200 USDT that's there to be won. All you have to do is sign up on, youmeme.com, create an account, create a meme, and let it go, right? So remember, also, to qualify for the prize, you have to follow us on AdLunam Inc. And become part of our Telegram group to stay informed about the updates and also to follow what's happening with this campaign. Now, the campaign is focused on the greatest show on Earth that's happening this weekend, the FIFA quarterfinals.
JP
So stay tuned for more updates which are coming up. The campaign will end on Sunday at the end of the day on Sunday after the final match. And the winners will be announced on our sister show, The Future of NFTs, which will be held on Tuesdays at the same time and, of course, the same space. Right. That being said, ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for being part of this show today. Thank you, Nadja, for being here. Thank you, Lawrence. I know that you're on a flight, but wherever you are, thank you for jumping in to the team at AdLunam. Thank you for making this possible. And to all you wonderful people in the room, thank you for being there constantly to support us time and time again. It's because of you that we keep doing these shows, because we know that you enjoy the content that we create.
JP
So please write in also and tell us what you did like, what you'd like to see more of, which are the kind of people you want to have us speak with. That being said, ladies and gentlemen, have a great day. Cheers.
Nadja
Cheers everybody. Lovely to be here. Have a wonderful week and catch you next week for Future of NFTs on Tuesday. Thank you JP. Lovely to speak here.
JP
Bye as always. Cheers.
