Beyond NFTs : Ordinals revolutionizing Digital Collectibles

Beyond NFTs : Ordinals revolutionizing Digital Collectibles

SPEAKERS

Nadja Bester, AdLunam Inc Co-founder

Naqib Noor, Co-Founder of Ordzaar

Ilia Obraztcov, Founder & CTO of OrdinalsGoods

Shafiu Hussain, CEO & Co-Founder of Oviato

All right, guys, I think we are a full house before we begin, let me quickly double check, can you hear me? Give me your favorite emoji, if you do. All right, awesome. So let's get the show on the road. Hey, web3 world. This is AdLunam co-founder, Nadja Bester, and you are listening to the Future of NFTs and so many other things, where our expert guests give you the lowdown on what's really going on in the world of building the future. So today, we are discussing Bitcoin ordinal for digital collectibles. So if you're interested in ordinals, or have heard of it, definitely the show that you need to be tuning into to up your knowledge and your understanding. So with us today are a fantastic lineup of builders who lead by examples, by nearing ordinals beyond just NFTs or just NFTs, as people say. So to start us off with a quick sound check. I'm going to introduce each of you and ask for a one word answer to the following question, what is one word that describes the future of ordinals? So Naqib Noor, co-founder of a permissionless ordinals marketplace, we'll start with you. Welcome. Naqib, what is your one word?

Hey. GM, genuine one. My one word for ordinals is basically revolution. Yeah,

awesome. I love that. That's definitely a word that we like to lead with around. On these parts, awesome. Happy to have you here. Ilia Obraztcov, founder and CTO of OrdinalsGoods , a decentralized peer to peer. Shopify of sorts, marketplace for RWAs using ordinals NFTs. Ilya, what is your one word?

Thank you for inviting me. And my one word will be, let's say assets,

all right, another really awesome word that we definitely going to be digging into tonight. And then finally, we have Shafiu Hussain, CEO and co-founder of Oviato , a Canva for Bitcoin, no code platform making it accessible for artists to create powerful digital collectibles on Bitcoin. Shafiu, welcome. How are you doing, and what is your one word?

Gm gm. Thanks for having me here. The one word, my one word would be forever. Because the art that you create on Bitcoin lives on forever.

Oh, wow, I love that as well. So we definitely have some legacy conversations to be had tonight. So awesome guys, welcome. Uh, very excited for this topic before we get there just a few quick announcements. First of all, the future of NFTs is brought to you by AdLunam Inc., the web3 investment ecosystem, pioneering Engage to Earn and Proof of Attention, models for tokenized investments and community engagements. And as for that announcement, I will be speaking at AI evolve summit later on today, I think it's about two hours on human and AI collaboration as part of a revolution in today's workforce. So if you're curious about the impact that AI will have on the world of work, come join us. But now on to the start of a very interesting conversation, to sketch the or, let's say, to lay the foundation a little bit. Because I think ordinals is one of those things that if you are in the web three space, most people in web three probably have heard of it. Not that many really understand it. And as we all face the same problem in web three that you know, the average person that we speak to on the street have no freaking idea what we're even talking about. It, then ordinals is a far more niche thing, and so far fewer people outside even the ordinal space really understand it. Never mind web3. So I'm going to start us off with a really simple question, so that everyone can kind of get on the same page as to what we are talking about. I want you guys to explain it to us like we are five. What are ordinals? Anyone? Please feel free.

I can start first. So Bitcoin ordinals is actually a new protocol in the Bitcoin that to make it very simple, based on what they create themselves. Said is to bring digital assets, digital art, on chain, not like NFTs, which are off chain, because the asset is in IPFS and it's not really on chain. The owner, you know, the owner of such assets, NFT don't really own it, right? But for all knows, to make it very simple for the beginners, right? Is basically, let's say you inscribe something inscribed, meaning you put some, you put data into a single Satoshi, and then you pull the Satoshi up into the miner to get it inscribed properly. And that data is on chain forever. And if you do it and you and you hold it. You hold that data, meaning you hold that actual data on chain, not just something that is off chain. That is the basis that I'm start for the beginners who don't understand what is on us in the simplest form, not in any technical manner. Yeah.

Well, Naqib, that is a fantastic breakdown of a very complex topic. Thank you so much. So I'm going to then ask to expand on your definition, Ilya or Shafiu. You. Please feel free to take this one. So when you say that, unlike NFTs, that are not stored on chain, they are stored on protocols like IPFS, for example. What do you mean when you say that ordinals are stored on chain? Can you explain again, explain it to us, like with five? Yeah,

I would probably reiterate a bit what Naqib already told us. But ordinals, for me, is just the most secure file storage system on the planet Earth right now, you can store any data permanently on the most secure ledger that is Bitcoin. And what is even more important is the flexibility of originals. You can have ownership rights. You can have parent, child, relay. Efficiency relationships, recursive content and peer to peer trading. Having all this, we can implement any kind of complex behavior, any kind of complex protocol, even for real world assets that we are doing. So, yeah, if we call Ethereum the world computer ordinals is definitely world file systems, the most secure file system on the planet Earth.

Wow, I love that. Okay, so it's the most secure file storage system for the world computer. That's a very beautiful way of putting it. Shafiu, please do feel free to add I'm sure there are still a lot of questions, so I would love for you to kind of pull the definition together.

Okay, sure, yeah. So since you mentioned explain to a five year old, I'll try to explain to a five year old. So imagine you go to a museum and you buy a painting, and when you buy the painting in Ethereum in NFTs, basically when you buy the painting, you get a receipt that you own the painting. You actually don't get the painting when the painting is stored somewhere else. And you have a receipt, a piece of paper that says you own the painting. But when it comes to ordinals, when you buy the painting, the painting is actually stored somewhere, and it's verifiable that you own it, not it. There is no such thing as like, Oh, this is a receipt that you own it. It's just that you actually own it, so that's the best way I can explain to a five year old.

Thank you all so much. I think it's sometimes a lot more difficult to explain something in very simple terms than it is to use, of course, the industry jargon that we are all used to. So that brings me to my next question. And any of you, please feel free to get going. What makes ordinals on Bitcoin unique if you compare them to NFTs on other Bitcoin, Bitcoin blockchain, sorry, like Ethereum or Solana, now I know earlier has already alluded to the fact that the file storage on Bitcoin, so I would love to kind of get into more about why are we talking about ordinals? Is this an evolution from NFTs? Is this? Is this better than NFTs, and in what ways

let me go first, sorry. yeah, okay,

so I think the first thing is that the one that Naqib already mentioned right like the ordinals, are stored on chain, on the Bitcoin Blockchain, and NFTs are not stored on chain. It's actually stored on could be stored on web somebody's Dropbox, or web3, basically on AWS server, or the most decentralized way to store NFTs is basically IPFS. And the thing is, with IPFS, there is really no incentive for somebody to run an IPFS node, except developers who are building stuff on it. But I think with Bitcoin is there is always incentive for people to run Bitcoin nodes, because Bitcoin is the mother chain that's the best, the most decentralized and secure network in the world, meaning that is even more secure and decentralized and Ethereum right now, because when it comes to Bitcoin, there is no way that you can shut it down, or there is no Like, a large portion of it is owned by somebody. It's just heavily decentralized, right? But sadly, after the proof of stake, I feel like Ethereum has become a lot more centralized. Yeah, yes, it is said, Sorry, Naqib, go ahead.

No, you can cover sorry. I'm not feeling that well. Hold on, you guys. Doctors, Okay, I'm back. I'm back. Sorry. So for me, right? People always talk about, you know, how oils are better than NFTs, or how NFTs are better than oils. You know, to me is two different things. To me, NFTs or Ethereum in Solana in Tezos, or whatever, they have their own perks, in a way, compared to ordinals, right? Like, it's not a pros and cons. Thing is, to me, it's a it's between apples and orange thing, for example, when it comes to NFTs, right? There are certain things that NFT is beneficial, right? Like, for example, not doing, like event ticketing and stuff like you is, there's no point doing building, using that on oils. There's no point launching ticketing on oils. Because, I mean, you can is like a more like a vanity thing. But when it comes to certain. Um, programmable things that you need to change, is better to do anything. Because for your tickets, like tickets change, you need to change certain details. Suddenly, you know, you launch this energy for to do ticketing, and then there's some error, something you can actually change. It easy, right? And you can't do for oils, like if you launch a ticket, and this error somehow you can't you have to just, do? You have to reinscribe after you inscribe and deploy a new audience. And that costs a lot of money at times, right, depending on the size and whatever. But, so that is kind of like a use case for NFTs that oils can't really do, right? I mean, can do but, but it just doesn't make sense for oil itself. You know, if you talk is, is different. It can be like what I mentioned, store data on chain right for one way is, let's say you have, let's say someone want to constantly store public data, meaning, instead of you paying Google Cloud Services monthly, you know, and stuff like that, to maintain this storage system. Let's you have a contract that is publicly you want to share publicly. You just describe it on chain. Anyone in the world that understand they have the description number can just view it in audit scan or whatever. And you only need to pay one time fee, and that fee is depending on the size. It can be less than $10 just pay one time. That's this one thing that owners can do for data storage, right? Other than that, you talk about art, right? If you talk about art itself, you know you art is something that the artists always talk about, passionate about work, about just live and breathe art and imagine, like the artist themselves. This is true story, by the way. Like, if you look at my profile, one of the I actually signed a very big partnership with the government of Bali, right in Bali itself. And the reason why they are so interesting oils, because they have so many artists talent in Bali. And back then, covid hits, as you know, Bali is the number one, one of the number one tourist sports in Asia, Southeast Asia especially. And when covid hits, the economy crashed, and people start to do creative stuff. But the problem is, you know, these people don't understand how smart contract works. You know, even though there's a lot of applications out there to support but they just don't really understand and in a way, and they themselves when they found out that, you know, when they draw this art, they need to maintain the smart contract. They need to make sure understand how IPFS work and stuff like that. There's so much hassle. And to maintain that cost money in a way, right? So instead, on top of that, you know, like for artists, having their art to be immortalized is something prestigious, and you cannot immortalize the data art on other chains, other than Bitcoin for oils in this in this case, because when the artist, when I teach them, you know, it's just so easy. Just draw the art digitally. For example, you draw the art, you take a picture, whatever, you scan it, you inscribe it in one single button, okay? Maybe two additional two buttons you need to pay, right? So you inscribe it, and then you just do the wallet poster, and you pay. You are done. You don't need to bother about maintaining it. You don't need to bother about maintaining a smart contract. You don't need to bother about maintaining anything else, because it's just a one time fee. You store the ad on chain, and it's going to be there forever. And that is something that oils can do where NFT can do. I mean, technically you can do on chain data storage on Ethereum, if I'm Yeah, but it's so much difficult. I mean, it's so much more expensive from the wrong as well. The on chain monkeys did it as well, but they spent a lot of money, and that's why they themselves. You know, they believe that audience is the best way, the easiest way, the fastest way to do, to do immortalization of an art, for example. And to me, this is the differentiation between NFT use case and oils use case, right? So maybe always people say oil is going to kill NFT. Always no audience can. Audience is good at the specific content of specific things that it's good for, and NFTs have its own use case as well. So I don't want people to always think that we honors guys are against NFT. No, for me, it's all about how we make use of different technologies for different purpose. Art is art. Art is supposed to be immortalized because artists are passionate. It has to be on the mother chain, which is Bitcoin, because it's immortalized. Right? Countries fall first before Bitcoin fall. That's always what I'm trying to push right. But Bitcoin owners can never achieve that flexibility of changing data, fast, easily on the digital level. NFTs, that's what I'm saying. Yeah.

Okay. Thank you very much. That was an incredibly balanced view of both technologies. And it's actually not that often that people in web three are able to have such a balanced view, because I think. We have the tribalism as in any in any industry, but certainly in web3, I think it's a little bit more pronounced. So very much appreciate the fact that you are able to highlight how both of these technologies have different use cases at different times for different people. So that led to a few questions. The first one being we're talking about immortalizing data, which I think is a really beautiful concept, because if we think about data as an asset, we do expect or assume that data will last forever. But of course, this is the limitations of technology, and especially where two technologies. I mean, if you are on a social media platform, you might have had a message exchange with someone, and then they delete the app, or, you know, they don't use it anymore, and then suddenly you have lost access to those messages as well. So we understand, I mean, I think conceptually, most people understand that, yes, if there's a possibility to actually immortalize data, as in as much as Bitcoin can immortalize anything. Of course, we believe that Bitcoin is going to go on and on and on, which is why we're building on top of it. But then let's talk about privacy. How does privacy come in to effect with ordinals. So if I publish something on the Bitcoin chain, is it always public? Is someone always able to find it, explain that in a you know, again, in a, sort of explain me like I'm five kind of way,

yeah, I mean, Bitcoin is all it's all about transparency. I mean, Blockchain is all about transparency, right? Like, I mean, if you publish anything on chain. That thing is on chain, and anyone or anyone can just retrieve it if they knew what is inscription number four, if, let's say, talk about oils, right, let's say you have a data you want to put it on chain, everyone can access it. If you have a private data, well, you should not push it on chain. You should just publicly store it in a public in a private chain, for example, that you own, or a specific company own, or something, because people want privacy, not because so when you talk about privacy itself, right? It's a subject per individual, for myself. You know, we live in an era where there's no such thing as privacy because we choose to connect to Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, whatever you by connecting, you're already giving out, right? Unless you're really that hardcore, you know, you don't connect to all social media and everything's privacy. Then, to be honest, you just use your own private chain. But if you have private data, that you have private data, you want to put it on chain. It just doesn't make sense to me, to be honest, because blockchain is transparent, right? Yeah, to me, privacy and blockchain is depending on the user, what kind of privacy they want, like, unless you know, like, if I am a person who don't want people to know my data, my identity and everything, then there's, yes, there's a trustless way to trade. There's a trustless way to push, to send someone something, to trust this man. That's privacy, right? You can, if you want to, even in Bitcoin, you can do that anyway, if someone don't know whose address is this, or you can just transact easily. But to put data on chain and call it privacy, I don't know, I don't know about my speakers, but to me, it's stupid.

Yeah, yes, please go ahead.

Yeah, usually when people ask me, like, like, norm is when norm is asking me how you can explain the word blockchain, what it is. And I always refer to the blockchain as cloud, decentralized notary notaries, that is just in the cloud that you don't need to stay in the queues to waiting for the notaries to come to notary office to sign something, but it's notary that is fully decentralized, and that is on the cloud. And if you have a register of real estate or company ownership, you don't want that register to be kind of a private scene, and you don't want notary to have two separate registers. The Register should be immutable and should be unique, and there should be only one register that is public for anybody. And also beyond that, we can have all kind of technical merits to record proof of something without putting the actual sensitive data on chain. So it's technically we can do that.

Yeah, exactly. That's actually why I also wanted. To highlight, like if somebody wants to store private data, there is ways around it, but hasn't really been mainstream because you could, you could technically exactly why ilium and so you could technically store something like proof of something, but rather than actually storing that something on chain. Yeah,

perfect, wonderful. Thank you so much for addressing that question, which I know that someone had addressed to me before the show and wanted to know more about. So thank you then, Ilia, I'm curious you are you have a foot both in the RWA space as well as, of course, the ordinal space. So how do you think are ordinals changing the way that we think about ownership, in light of your experience of really bringing these two worlds together?

Yeah, perfect. Ila, I'm very curious to learn more. But before we go into more detail, Jeff, you, I want to know you come from, in fact, your previous role, before you came into the ordinal space, I think, was with a very large organization, and so with Mindvalley, I believe. And so how is this sort of cultural shift? Because even in the web, three space, ordinals are far more at the forefront of where things are heading, as opposed to, you know, the more traditional applications of blockchain. And I mean, there's a spectrum, and any person working in the space falls somewhere on that spectrum. So how has this shift, this transition, been from working for far more traditional company in a far more traditional industry, and now finding yourself in a space where, I mean, this is groundbreaking work, building on top of Bitcoin, everyone knows about Bitcoin. Everyone knows that there's things happening in the web three space, but not that many people have connected that there's a lot of revolution, sorry, a lot of innovation, sorry, which is a revolution that can actually shift to to Bitcoin, as opposed to being on other chains. So how has that transition been for you?

thank you. Shafiu, I think there's certainly not enough of this being emphasized. I loved what you said about we all are used to force these. We are all forced to use these half baked applications, which is why, even in the web3 space, you don't see everyday adoption of web3 tools, even by web3 builders and web3 professionals. So that definitely just really ultimately brings it to the foundation that if apps and DApps and environments are not or are inferior to the ones that we are used to in the world the web2 world that we are trying to get away from. Then, clearly it's not going to work. I have a follow up question when you talk about, I mean, of course, I think that the tools that you guys have built is absolutely amazing. Barrier to entry is such a huge thing, no matter what it is that you are building, the knowledge gaps, the skills gaps are always there, but especially in an environment like this, that's extremely complex. And I mean, there's so many moving parts that a creator needs to understand. Where do you even begin? So I'm curious, when you compare, sort of how easy it is to create an NFT versus how easy it is to create an ordinal. How would you say, what is that difference like for the average creator? Let's say you start from knowing nothing.

So there are actually a couple of ways that you can create an NFT. I mean, most of NFT projects out there are basically a copy of crypto punks contract and just feel details change and then just launch right? But when it comes to ordinals, there isn't really something like that you could do. You still have to do the legwork. And if you want to do, I mean, the basic stuff is, of course, you can inscribe your artwork to Bitcoin, like basically upload your artwork to Bitcoin. But if you want to do anything complex like recursion, so recursions in ordinals is imagine that you inscribe or upload, upload an ordinal, and then in the second ordinal you are just referencing to the first ordinal that you have already uploaded. So you know, uploading the data again. Right? So this is the idea of recursions, right? And using recursions, if Imagine you want to create a PFP collection, all your traits are already uploaded, and your individual PFP collection pieces are just reference into the traits. And if somebody wants to create a collection like this, if you basically hire a developer and do this, it's going to cost you north of 10, 15k if the 10, 15k us right? But using a tool like what we have, it is very easy. Basically, drag and drop and right now, actually, using our tool, you don't even pay a platform fee. We've actually waived all platform fees, so the only fee you will be paying is just a fee to put it on chain, yeah, because we really want to help artists and onboard as many people as to this space, instead of actually just looking for a short game.

Thank you so much. Ilya ordinals goods, you leverage Bitcoin ordinals and RWAs to create this decentralized e commerce platform. Who is your current target audience, and if you have a different target audience in future, please address that as well, and then, what unique benefits are there for these or for these stakeholders to use this specific platform, as opposed to using that doesn't use ordinals? I mean, maybe, maybe the RWAs aspect is a little bit easier to understand. Or perhaps not. There's also a lot of people listening to the show that don't perhaps have a very complete understanding of what RWAs are. So maybe if you can kind of dig into both Who are you catering to, and why do ordinals and RWAs work for them?

right now we focus on digital nomads because they are crypto savvy, and because we can provide a set of unique features for them to transform the way how they actually consume real world use, one of the most important features that we developed is a subscription mechanics, an example, like every one of us use shampoo, and we buy a new shampoo bottle twice a month or once a month, and consume it with our tool set. We can create a subscription for shampoo. Infinite subscription for shampoo. So you can own a part of a company that built that provide shampoo. You can have that this company issues subscription, infinite and limited subscription. You own that subscription, and while you own this subscription, you get shampoo bottle twice a month for free. You can then resell the subscription. You can then resell individual shampoo bottles all as an NFT on organelles, and we did a series of customer interviews, we did partnerships, and we identified that subscription and mechanics is what is attract digital nomads. We already started with one brand, apparel, brand mono, particularly focused on digital nomads. Right now they're already T shirts, extremely quality T shirts, bamboo blend. It's expensive T shirts, but it really feels nice, and it's available on magic hidden already, so yeah, you can own that ordinal t shirt. You can get real t shirt shipped anywhere around the world for free. And then you can get airdrops while holding these NFTs and so on, all these mechanics the digital nomads like. And then we will onboard other brands. We will also expand to real estate, hospitality industries, lots of plants, but yeah, the subscription mechanics and peer to peer ownership, that is what kind of amazes us, and why we went all in on ordinals in our area.

very interesting. Ilia, I'm curious then, I mean, a lot of digital nomads. I Yeah. I mean, first of all, maybe just to say, it's great to hear someone building for nomads. I've been one for a long time. And you always feel like you are the last group that anyone thinks of, you know, especially when you're faced with issues like, No, you're only allowed to use this one app in this one country. So very appreciate the fact that they're still, you know, founders looking to service this group. Very important. But I'm curious then, a lot of digital nomads make money, for example, through drop shipping, and that's been a very popular sort of way to fund a digital nomads lifestyle for for many, for great number of years now. So how do you envision that this kind of approach? How is that going to affect if at all, you know that this focus that a lot of digital nomads currently have, which is a very web2 model.

Yeah, so drop shipping is cool, but in kind of at the beginning, we are targeting more. Was a niche related to capital attraction, in example, to establish your brand, to start shipping goods, you need some capital. You need to build to build websites, to build pipelines, to build everything. And if you don't have decent amount of certain capital, actually, there are not many choice. You can try to find investors, but for the type of businesses, for e commerce, it's really hard. Bank loans are also not a choice. So we establish this subscription model as kind of crowdfunding approach. So if you already have a community of like many individuals who want to consume your brand, you can sell subscriptions to them, for them to be a part of your brand journey. Kind of to not just have them in the community in discord or in Telegram, but also make them to be a community in your business, to make them to own a share of your business, but without all that of that bureaucracy with shareholding rights, with equity ownership. Subscription is really kind of peer to peer relationships between a business producing or shipping goods and their clients, and it's not about equity securities ownership, but about this peer to peer goods deliveries and peer to peer value exchange.

Ah, wonderful. Thank you for clearing that up. I actually wasn't sure about that myself. Thank you, Ilya, it makes complete sense. I think you know, what really came to mind for me is, if you look at the way that the Creator economy is going, there are so many limitations on web2 platforms, that there's the Creator economy has reached the glass ceiling that it really cannot get through, because the limitations of these platforms are the reasons that you know that's where you kind of stop. And so really, what I'm hearing, especially in terms of the capital establishment, I think that's always the main issue, of course, for anyone doing anything. But if, especially if you're someone who is traveling the world, and you certainly are not going to get a bank loan, and nor do you have, you know, even, I mean, anyone kind of giving funding to someone that is in a traditional space, I mean, traditional funding space is going to frown at that. Well, what do you mean? You don't have a permanent address. So that brings me, then to my next question, Naqib. So Ordzaar is a permissionless ordinals marketplace, what does this look like in practice? Why would an artist choose to go with a permissionless ordinals marketplace, as opposed to one of the popular kind of NFT marketplaces. What is that sort of journey who is getting into ordinals right now?

So just to make some corrections, you know, also, we are a permission Launchpad. No, we do have a marketplace. But is that marketplace mainly just a small P2P kind of concept, but mainly we have a permissions Launchpad. And why we're doing this, permissions Launchpad is because back in the early days, is all about launching, or trying out, or you knows, and to grow and to try to help the owner space to further grow, right like back in the dating shop, as mentioned, people trading spreadsheets and stuff like that. And a lot of people want to try, but they don't know how, because there wasn't any infrastructure being built. No toolkits, no SDK, nothing, right? No one is building anything in orders in the early days, because it just first started out. So how people did back then to launch Collection? Or images or art in oils. They are these people have to pre inscribe everything, and the file size was huge or small, whatever. And it cost people a lot of money. And this was one of the reason in early days, you know, not many people want to try on it, because super expensive. So that's when I decided to build odds are where it is easy, super easy way for anyone to try, or knows, to launch collection or No, to launch out on ordinals, in a pernicious way, in the sense that we don't really, we don't gate, right, because we there are a lot of different projects out there, Launchpad out there. You know, they gated a lot of different projects, meaning you want to launch something, you have to wait them to be approved. This is not the Bitcoin way, right? The Bitcoin way is to let anyone have fun, to try it out. And I took the ethos of Satoshi making it permissionless, and we launched, odds are. So if you have not tried, just go to odds are, you know, try it out, like go to our creators platform, just, it's so simple. We create in a way the UI is so simple, you know, he just launched it very fast. And the people that use our platforms are actually crypto people themselves that believe in permissionless in a way that they are. They are meant to launch whatever they want to launch, right? Yes, you know, some people say, I'm harboring a lot of I'm making people launch grief or, like, scammy projects. But hey, even before I was doing this, what about Uniswap? What about all the other DEXes out there? You know, it was permission that let people grieve, but then it was a hellhole, right? I remember when Uniswap was launched, people just clone USDC ticker, and then they just create a pair. And people actually who doesn't understand defy or don't understand how to read smart contracts or contract addresses, when they swap a fake USDC, they got rug right, but that's the nature of how you know permissions is, and this is also one thing that we want to build to ensure that orders grow. We so odds are, you know, we built order to bring liquidity from different chains into oils. And we, we, and we have achieved that kind of volume and being, if you talk about all the artists and stuff, our main focus is actually not artists. We let gamma do with all the artists. Gamma, they have a beautiful platform. You know, they, they that's meant for real artists. I'm not saying also there's no real artist. It's more of our focus is to be liquidity for other chains. And if you look at the history of all crypto, what are the liquid? Where are all these liquid coming from? It's from degens. So my goal is to capture all these degens, to come in to bring the liquidity in, into unknowns. And we did it really well, right? We let degens launch collection to try it out. People try to mean it's super simple, right? Like that is our core focus as a permissions Launchpad. So as of date, you know, we are still, I think we are the number one permissions Launchpad in the space. We have 700,000 users that use our platform that minted something or trade something on the P2P style, in a way, you know. And we also work with different marketplaces, you know. We when the collection launch on Ordzaar, you know, we refer them to magic Eden, for example. We refer them to UNICEF. We refer them to OKX. So we work in a very cohesive way. So that is how that's the reason why I built in the first place, to grow the liquidity, to grow the user base in on us.

Yeah, love that. Thank you so much. So I have a quick a follow up question to both you and Shafiu, and it's a very practical question, because I want to kind of give an example of how this would work, step by step, if someone listening to this is interested in in doing something on ordinals. So let's say I don't want to do art. Let's say, let's say I want to publish a book, or I have published a book and I put it, I want to put it on ordinals. What is the kind of first step? How would that work? Where do I go? What's the next step? How would that sort of step by step process look like?

Yeah, so you want to go Shafiu.

Yeah, I can actually, because the beginning part I will and then hand over to you basically the how, how our partnership works, right? Oviato and Ordzaar is actually already partners so well, to publish the book, you come to oviato.com and you just go to inscribe, drag and drop your file, and if you want to add any metadata, like your name, the book's name, or any of the other details you put that and when you hit next, you basically have to pay the network fees. And the network fees very much depend on the current congestion of the network. So right now. Looking at the network fees on Bitcoin, it's actually quite cheap. It's 5v bytes. 5v bytes per set. So after you inscribe, after you put your file on chain, and if you use one of our tools, like studio, which lets you create a collection, we actually have, odds are integration already in it, where, at the tail end of your creation process, we ask you, where do you want to launch? So we have a integration. We also have magic hidden integration, and we also have mintify, is a new marketplace that's coming up. The integration that is going to be released soon, right? So once, let's say the user wants to launch at odds are, we send the file and the details prepared in a way that odds are, can accept it, and then I'm going to pass it on to Naqib, because Naqib accepted the file now,

yeah, well This is, I did not even notice a time at all. Thank you guys. This has been just an amazing episode. I think what you've been able to do breaking down very complex topics to make it more accessible to the average person in web3 is amazing. I have maybe a few more questions that I'm going to try and get into, just to kind of see how much we can squeeze out of this hour, the first one. And please, any of you feel, feel free to take it. What is the most exciting development in the ordinal space that you are keeping an eye on right now? Maybe it's super early, and there's not much to say about it yet, but what is the kind of movement that's happening underground?

Lucky. We are definitely getting you back on to talk about BTC five, for sure. Thank you so much for that, Shafiu. What about you? What are your thoughts on what the most exciting development is that's happening kind of underground.

I think, I mean, I have two versions. The first one is not really an underground one, but this is something that I've seen since ordinals came around. I mean, ordinals was invented before that, Bitcoin was boring, like I would just buy some bitcoin and then it would just stay in the wallet. There's nothing else I can do, right? But now looking back at it, since last February, well, last year's February, you can see that Bitcoin is exciting. Now people are building shit on Bitcoin. It's actually really fun to build things on Bitcoin, and I'm just super excited that, I mean, we, we all came from all different networks, but I'm just excited that there is a lot of things that have been built on Bitcoin, and there is a lot of exciting things that are to come to Bitcoin, still, right? Like, I mean, if I go a bit technical about, like, for example, op get is something that everybody is just really trying to get into Bitcoin, which almost allows the similar type functionality of, like, smart contracts on Bitcoin. So there is again, a lot of development that is coming to Bitcoin, and I'm just excited that there is a lot more builders on Bitcoin now.

Yeah, love that. Thank you so much, Ilia, what about you?

I would name fractal Bitcoin because it's you just launched it yesterday, mainnet, and it's a type of L tools that extend Bitcoin network capacity, like extent multiple times. So it allows, in particular, for our service to bring down fees, because, yeah, before fractal network, before two solutions, it would really cost a decent amount of money to inscribe. Let's say one megabyte of art, or in our case, let's say 10k your. Assets, it would still cost a lot of money, but we sell two solutions coming to Bitcoin meet, it will allow to significantly reduce fees and enable a mass adoption of both arts and any other types of assets.

Thank you all so much for a fantastic episode. I think if anyone listening to this was not at least a little bit excited about ordinals and what the what's happening on Bitcoin, because I think we can all agree, we're all always excited when there's movement when in relation to Bitcoin. So I think if someone started this episode not being particularly interested, interested in most certainly you guys have changed their minds tonight. So as a final sort of goodbye, what is your one piece of advice to someone wanting to enter the ordinal space now, this might be building on it. This might just be learning or creating something. What is the sort of one piece of advice you can give people listening.

Shafiu, Ilia, if you want to add yours, yeah, thank you, and keep love it.

Yeah. I think my parting words would be very much in line with what Naqib said. Trying ordinals might seems to be something that is a little daunting, a bit scary, because we use all these complicated terms and shape, but you really have to try. And it isn't, it isn't the heart. And if you are an artist and you want to create your first collection, publish your first PFP collection, or even create your massive artwork, you just head over to Oviato. I'm actually shilling here. Have you had head over to Oviato and just use our tool inscribe and then launch with any of our partners? And like odds are, and I think the one thing that I just want to touch on a little bit about what Naqib said of the market cap, right? Focusing on Bitcoin and building on Bitcoin is so much more important than anything else, if you even look at the pure numbers, right? If you look at for example, Bitcoin market cap is almost three times bigger than its next driver, which is Ethereum. So there is a lot of untapped capital here, untapped potential to actually build some amazing things. And could it be a collection? Could be even products? Yeah,

Love it, guys. Thank you so much. This was absolutely awesome. If people want to follow you, where's the best place to find you?

Just follow me on Twitter or X, they call it now, yeah,

yeah, same here. Just hit the frog PFP on my profile and just follow me. Everything is there on my profile.

Yeah, same here.

All right, guys, awesome. So amazing to talk to you and really just demystify, I think, a lot of concepts that people see and hear, but that's kind of as far as it goes. And you know, just speaking to how early we are, just content like this is so incredibly important, because there's really not that much information about things in web three. And so ultimately, the best way to learn is to join spaces like this and to hear real people building real things talk about how they do it. So I'll catch you again next time for another episode of the Future of NFTs brought to you by AdLunam. Cheers guys, have a great day. Bye.

Thank you.